Still a Student…Still Our Responsibility? Empty Nesters Debate - E130

Rick Denton (00:06)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the loud quiet. Hey, before we get into today's episode, we want to say thank you. Thank you because we just received notice that we have gone over 10,000 downloads. And while we say we've gone over it, it's actually you, you the listener, you the viewer, you're the ones that are watching this, you're the ones that are listening to this. And we are so appreciative that this little idea that started as something just for Clancy and me to stay connected has become.

Well, something that you actually care about, you enjoy and as a part of your weekly rhythm. And we thank y'all for allowing us to hit that milestone.

Clancy Denton (00:41)
Yeah, we do. really appreciate it. you know, we are well into March. And as we talked about last week, March Madness is going on. is currently on our TV downstairs while we are taking out the time. are taking the time to record because we know there are people out there listening. So we thank you for that. This week, we wanted to talk about

Rick Denton (00:58)
The Game

Clancy Denton (01:11)
supporting your children. have talked about that topic quite a bit. And we had a call from our son Tanner this week and his tire had a slow leak. So, you know, we...

guided him. He's like, I've never done this before. I'm not sure. What do I do? And so we said, take it in, too. There's a firestone right by his place. Take it there. Just have them.

Rick Denton (01:42)
Yeah, and then you plug it and then you're done.

Clancy Denton (01:45)
So he takes it and he's like, okay, well, it's got a bubble in it. They say it needs to be replaced.

unfortunately, there are a couple of us in this family that like tires.

Some tires are more expensive than others. So when he got the price, I think he had a little bit of sticker shock because this child has never bought tires before.

Rick Denton (02:11)
Right. And while it is a nice car, it's not a luxury car. No, no, no,

Clancy Denton (02:14)
It's

a sport. It's just the sport because Yes,

Rick Denton (02:17)
So, yeah, it makes the tires a little more.

Clancy Denton (02:20)
So with that comes these sport tires. So.

Rick Denton (02:26)
Those of you all that know me know I'm driving a 2001 Chevy Silverado, so I have no sport tires. So I'm not the one we're talking about here with the sport tires.

Clancy Denton (02:34)
I have a history of having...

entire fetish. Is that the word you're looking for? No, it's not a fetish. I like,

Rick Denton (02:48)
I

like big tires and you cannot lie.

Clancy Denton (02:51)
No, the rims are big. Okay, anyways, we're not talking about me here, okay? So this brought about a little bit of discussion between us. So we wanted to see if that resonated with any of y'all and stay tuned to see. Yeah, we buy the tire. we buy the tire? What did we decide and how did we get to that decision?

Rick Denton (02:53)
The re- the-

What did we?

Let's start with this by saying we were not asked to buy the tire. was no request that was made. So this is really yours and my internal discussion. Not that we even thought of it that way, but of supporting your adult kids. And I think we brought some assumptions into this because my knee jerk reaction was, well, that sucks. And it does suck, but it sucks. Good luck. That's what savings is for.

Clancy Denton (03:49)
Yeah. And, and not that you were being ugly about it. you were definitely helping him. You were like, Hey, look, we love discount tire. Let me look it up. Let me find, you know, Hey, it's a little bit cheaper. They've got appointments because, you know, he and his girlfriend were about to leave for spring break.

Rick Denton (04:08)
Because

that's when bad things always happen is right before a trip,

Clancy Denton (04:11)
You know, they are still in school. They are in grad school, but they are still in school. And so I'm sitting over there quietly because we do work in the same office.

Rick Denton (04:23)
And he ⁓

Clancy Denton (04:25)
Yeah. No,

no, no, no, no. Well, he started that way, but then it was on the group. So historically when Tanner wants to purchase something, now this is definitely shifted. It doesn't happen. Not now. Not as much anymore. Not, not hardly at all anymore. He would always text me because he would know that I would say, yes, just buy it. Now.

Rick Denton (04:51)
With our money, hang on. You're not guiding him just to buy it. You're saying when he wanted us to pay for it.

Clancy Denton (04:56)
Yes,

yes, Yes. So I'm sitting there thinking, well, we're going to buy the tire. I'm just sitting there waiting for you to say, hey, we'll get it, or hey, we'll split it, or something to that effect. And I'm just sitting there waiting for you to say it. And I'm like, huh, he's really not saying anything. And again, you just.

went on the merry way and you're like, yeah, dude, you're, you know, just try to get it taken care of before spring break. And I'm sitting there going, huh, okay, that's different and new because, you know, earlier for spring or for St. Patrick's day, Tanner texted me. He always texts me when he wants stuff from Amazon because we have prime and he's like, I don't want to pay for prime. And so he'll text me, but then he always then, then mows me the money or sells me the money.

But this time it was like such a small amount. was like, just happy St. Patrick's Day. So, you know, and you don't even know that, but it just gets lost in the Amazon. Fortress.

Rick Denton (06:06)
I don't know. Sorry, y'all. We are not going to go down that path. That could be an entirely another episode. But you're right. It was that assumption element of it that it wasn't even that I thought there was a discussion that needed to be had. assumed, no, he's a young adult. It's time to do the young adulting kind of things. There's very little that we directly pay for. Now there's there are subsidies. There are

tuition and things like that, but it's not that we get bills to pay on his behalf. He's on his own now.

Clancy Denton (06:46)
to some degree. I mean-

Rick Denton (06:48)
But that's what is building in the assumption category

Clancy Denton (06:51)
Yes,

yeah, right. That's what you were thinking. And I'm thinking, no, he's still a student,

Rick Denton (06:53)
That's my assumption.

And we had chosen to kind of reinforce your assumption. We have always chosen that when they are students, that's, are still treating that as we are covering their students. Now I'll take a little pause here for a second and say, the way we do it doesn't mean that that's the right way or the wrong way. It's just the way we have done it. This is more about how we process choosing to support or not support our adult kid. And it opened up some things in us of realizing the assumptions that we bring to these kinds of conversations.

Clancy Denton (07:27)
And so we got off the phone and I turned to you and I said, so are we not going to help him out with that at all? And this goes to that I felt like I could directly ask you that question. I may not have felt that way several years ago.

Rick Denton (07:50)
That's interesting that makes me sound like an ogre I've never

Clancy Denton (07:53)
Well,

okay, you know what? think maybe, no, I don't think it's that. I think maybe I came at it a little softer. I think I probably maybe a few years ago would have said, hey, we're going to help him with that instead of phrasing it as a question.

Rick Denton (08:11)
That

makes, okay, that makes more sense because I'm sitting here going, whoa, I'm trying to defend myself here. That's not how I've approached our life in our marriage.

Clancy Denton (08:13)
No, no,

No,

I think I probably I came at it a little differently.

Rick Denton (08:24)
I can tell you how you would have said it five or six years ago. You're not going to pay for the time.

Clancy Denton (08:30)
no, you know what I probably would have done is just texted Tanner and say, hey, we'll pay for your tire.

Rick Denton (08:35)
And

then I'd see the text and go, what? That's not what I thought. Okay. ⁓

Clancy Denton (08:42)
That's actually

correct. know, yeah. Because as the mom, I just want to be like, yes, we'll help you. We'll do it.

Rick Denton (08:48)
So this is so we talked about like there was the assumption part of this that we brought to it we've Looking back on this little moment realized how our communication has shifted. Yeah, because when you said that to me Instead of me going immediately on the defense because a lot of times and and I feel that sometimes when we're in sort of a creative discussion about the loud quiet or anything that we're working on together collaboratively I start to feel attacked and that's a part of

and my feeling, I'm not saying you are doing that, I start to feel that this time it was interesting, it wasn't. It was more about, ⁓ fine. No, I walked in with, that we weren't gonna pay for it, and here's why here, the reasons kind of that were behind it. And I said this phrase to you, I said, but push back on me. I want to hear what your perspective is on this. And I know that sounds like therapy language or anything like that, but it really was kind of a, okay.

Push back on me, let's see where this goes.

Clancy Denton (09:48)
Let's go back to the talking about the, when we have creative discussions about the loud quiet. yeah. Sorry. I wasn't even doing that. just was talking that way.

Rick Denton (09:56)
First put the finger away.

Clancy Denton (10:05)
I think that's because I get, and there's times that I have to say to you, because sometimes your defensive tone, which didn't used to be, comes across as angry or like it comes across as a tone that I'm not used to you having.

Rick Denton (10:27)
Yeah, and ⁓ I think it's anger, like I'm getting irritated but not anger at you. I hope that's... I hope you're feeling that because I'm feeling agitated but not angry at you.

Clancy Denton (10:37)
And I'm just

and You you Have never shown that to me but probably because We've never worked together. Yeah, and so I've had to find my voice and saying okay, don't talk to me that way and You've had to say it to me as well but I think because

We each have our own idea of whatever we're discussing, of where we want it to go. if the other person isn't on board with where we want it to go, then yeah, I mean, it's, you know, and we're talking about the loud quiet. This is our child that we're talking about now. Granted, it's over. Should we buy a tire or not? But

Rick Denton (11:17)
⁓

It is interesting that you say that because you have always, let's not use the word always, we know we're not supposed to say that, but historically in our relationship, on the spectrum between emotion and calm, you in our discussions are the more emotional, I am the less emotional. I wouldn't say it's changed, actually what I'm doing is I'm, I actually am feeling myself.

Clancy Denton (11:54)
but it's changed a little.

Rick Denton (12:01)
kind of raising myself to your level of emotion. ⁓ And I don't, I actually think that's good because I think it actually allows us to kind of debate on an equal level. But here's the key to that. Even when I'm irritated with you, I still respect you and I still value your opinion. So even if I'm totally disagreeing with you,

I still recognize the value that you're bringing into that debate. so letting it get to that emotional scale, I know that it's not tipping over to some level where I just don't care squat about your opinion.

Clancy Denton (12:39)
Let's see, I feel like I've come down quite a bit. Really? Oh, okay. Seriously?

Rick Denton (12:48)
Here it comes!

I don't know how I would answer that but come down a little of course absolutely actually all joking aside of course, but you have not come into the You know, just pure Zen mode or anything No, you have firing

Clancy Denton (13:04)
No, but I have not-

Sure, but I have not gotten up and left the room like I used to before.

Rick Denton (13:11)
⁓ okay. Okay. That's a great example of that. I just mean, there's still the vigor, there's still the energy and there is still the, I mean, I'll say it again, the fire that's there. And I think it works for us in that business communication set. I don't know that always works as well for us in the relationship communication set. And I think that's where we've found

a different style. think we, I really do think we discuss and debate differently in our business discussions than we do in our personal discussion.

Clancy Denton (13:46)
Yeah, and I know we're totally getting off topic, but we're opening the door into our relationship for you guys. I

like our

relationship side I don't feel like there's been as much controversy on that side maybe because there's some there's all our fights yeah maybe because maybe because a lot of it gets taken up

Rick Denton (14:19)
I'm just going to agree because we're fatigued in discussing it.

Clancy Denton (14:22)
I because we have to discuss so much with the business side of things that we're so happy when we aren't discussing those things that we're just happy to be together. Maybe that, I maybe.

Rick Denton (14:39)
And I think that's an example of what we're talking about here that the fire may be in the business But in this case is like push back on yeah, tell me what you're thinking about.

Clancy Denton (14:46)
And we just had a civil conversation. And the first thing I said was, okay, if Teagan called today and said, hey, dad, my tire has a bubble in it and needs to be replaced. Would you pay for it?

Rick Denton (15:05)
It was a great question to ask because it hit on all the categories that some are subconscious, some are conscious, that were going on in my mind in the assumption that I had walking in of, of course we're not gonna pay for it. And the answer to your question was, yes, I bet we would have. And the reason-

Clancy Denton (15:30)
we would have, not I bet.

Rick Denton (15:32)
I think that's fine to say, whenever I'm talking a hypothetical, I'll just leave it kind of that way. And it was interesting to kind of process through the factors behind that. And one of them is undergrad versus graduate, right? There's something mentally, and I think it's because I didn't go to graduate school. So I've thought of myself as a student.

a I'm not in the quote real world until I graduated from my undergraduate experience. And so because that's when I became a I'm in the real world, that has been this mental line in my mind of, all right, you are still under kind of the parental influence support and a deeper sense of influence and support when you're an undergrad. So that alone was factor number one. And before we go into any of the other factors that we explored,

Did that even cross your mind?

Clancy Denton (16:32)
Well, I mean, yeah, because I said he is still a student. Yes, I know that he had a very good paying internship last summer, but it was only for, you know, what, eight weeks. you know, I know, yes, that helped fund all the fun trips that he has planned. But I see this as something that's not.

Rick Denton (16:49)
Well, I want to

Clancy Denton (17:03)
doesn't fall under that umbrella right now because he is still a student. And for us to say, we'll take care of that for her, which when she goes to grad school in a year, I would do the same thing. I would take care of that for her as well.

Rick Denton (17:23)
Well, she gets to be in a fish area if we've already had this discussion now. sure, but... You actually answered it. You brought in something that wasn't the exact question that I asked. I was asking about the difference between graduate and undergrad. You said... Thanks.

Clancy Denton (17:27)
Right, but...

I didn't still

a student. I all yes. I did not I did not distinguish between either or that all I thought was he's still a student that was

Rick Denton (17:46)
That

was a key phrase for me. Hands is fine, but when it's the wagging.

Clancy Denton (17:51)
just use my hands to talk. That's not really...

Rick Denton (17:55)
When you said he's still a student, light bulb went off in my head. That job part of it though, that was interesting for me because I had, I in a just dollars amount, he made more in that summer than I did in my annual salary when I came out of college at that same age. I realize inflation changes what I just said, but numerically it's like, nah, he made plenty of money. That money is there for these kind of things.

The job part of it was a factor in my mind as to, no, this is why he is responsible for this because he has these sorts of employment opportunities that he did not have access to at that degree as an undergrad.

Clancy Denton (18:39)
Yeah, and I get that. In my head.

Tanner has always been our child that...

We'll ask for lots of things.

Teagan has never asked for anything. Tanner has. Now again, like I said, that has really stopped. I that has stopped. That has stopped. Like even when y'all got your FIFA soccer tickets, he was like, hey, I'll buy them and then I'll Venmo you. You're like, no, I'm going to the game with you. I'm getting the tickets. know, there's just, so again, in my head, I'm thinking he didn't even ask us. So.

Because we can, I just feel like, you know, the child is about, he's thinking about spring break, how much fun and who we don't like to deal with this stuff. Let him be a kid for a little bit longer. That's what I, you know, and maybe that's wrong. Do y'all think that's wrong? Maybe I'm setting him up for failure. I don't know, but let him be a kid just a little bit longer.

Rick Denton (19:45)
Well, that's what we process there because that talk about the assumptions coming in. That is one that I am and you are too in most categories. How are they becoming more responsible for themselves? All right. We we we have very little involvement in his day to day decisions life or anything. Actually, no involvement there. Sometimes some awareness when he tells us stories, but it's he's living his independent life. So that's there. It's this was an example for me of, OK, look, bad stuff happens.

and you need to take care of it. There was one other category that it's a little bit, I'm almost sheepish to say out loud, but I think I was applying gender differences to my assumptions coming in there that had everything in this story been reversed, but it was our son that was the undergrad and it was our daughter that was in graduate school. I can't know this for sure.

But I wonder if my knee-jerk reaction, my assumption would have been, we're paying for it. And I don't think that that's right. I should extract gender from that decision process completely.

and some of it too is, you know, Teagan did have an experience where she did hit a curb. It was at five in the morning on the way to drill team. This was high school. It's a totally different environment. Of course, recovering. It just was a totally different situation, but it just made me think about the reflex that I had in that moment of, you know, it just wasn't even a...

Clancy Denton (21:17)
Question.

Rick Denton (21:19)
And this became a question, tons of other factors, but it's something that I actually just want to be self-aware of and pay more attention to. And I'm not here to say there aren't differences between genders or anything like that. I'm just here to say that my reaction there might have been influenced that way a lot more than I would have expected it to be.

Clancy Denton (21:41)
Well, I think too, that's just, that probably goes into the dad, son, mom, son, dad, daughter, mom, you know, just the dad versus mom. Mom wants to, you know, nurture, help, and dad is, you know, preparing them for, you know, especially with the son. So, you know,

Rick Denton (22:08)
And what's almost a self rebuttal to that though is how much I do invest in making sure that Teagan is growing into the adulting. I didn't do her taxes. I helped her with her taxes, but she did this. She's paying her bills. She's doing all the things.

That's why I'm not actually convinced that gender played a role in it. It's just interesting for me to be thinking about would my reaction have been different had the gender.

Clancy Denton (22:40)
That's why I think it was just dad. I think it was just dad mode. Well, on these kinds of things, like, no, you've totally set our children up to be successful, functioning adults.

Rick Denton (22:56)
Well, actually, let me, you mentioned the mother-son element. We spent a lot of time being self-introspective about me, but what about you? Does gender play a role there?

Clancy Denton (23:07)
I want to do everything for both of them. I mean, she just sent me her birthday list. Am I going to buy everything on it? Yeah, probably so. mean, that child, all going to be like key chains that cost $3 each. There's not going to be anything big on there. No, if she called me and had an issue, yeah, of course I'm going to.

Rick Denton (23:11)
Okay.

Clancy Denton (23:36)
try to help her with it. That's just...

Rick Denton (23:39)
Well, that's hard. No, was thinking, does the fact that Tanner is a male, did that affect any way that you were thinking about this decision?

Clancy Denton (23:52)
No, he's my son. I told him I wanted to pay for it right off the bat.

Rick Denton (23:59)
I'm trying to get me out of the introspective therapist couch and put you on it.

Clancy Denton (24:03)
Doesn't

matter, they're my children.

Now, I will say this was a question that got brought in when we did our live talking about support. And it was asking, when do you cross that line of giving support?

and enabling, you know, because it can be a slippery slope. what I answered was, I think when they start to expect it, that's when you've crossed over into the enabling side of things.

Rick Denton (24:25)
Yeah.

I think that's an important distinction. would add one to it and that would be frequency or occurrence count. Tire one, bad stuff happens. We're parents, we can help out. We've got the resources to do it. We can do that. Tire two, tire three, tire four, you keep hitting curves, keep bouncing some bubbles in there, that kind of stuff. Then it's, let's...

let's reevaluate what this decision is. And so for me, it became a lot easier to consider tire one, but if there were multiples, I think my assumptions might've stayed reality there. So I like what you said of expectations and then occurrence count.

Clancy Denton (25:27)
Yeah, what would we have done if they would have said, you really need all four replaced? What would that discussion have been? Splitsies.

Rick Denton (25:40)
You know those big ugly tires that I got on my truck? Do those fit the Civic? Because we're gonna make an attempt. So I think we've kind of revealed what the answer to this is and we did choose to buy the tires. So in the end, we did. And there's parts, I'm very comfortable with the decision and even the way we phrased it was that you're still a student. We got this and he was super appreciative.

Clancy Denton (26:07)
And he was not expecting it because he did text back and he said, I have the money to cover it, but I am very appreciative and very, you and that is the thing with both of our children. They do show appreciation.

Rick Denton (26:21)
There's

still a twinge in me that's you know, are we enabling it? So it's keeping that sort of radar up. And there's people listening that may go, yeah, you made the wrong choice. I don't think we made the wrong choice knowing all of the factors that fed into our decision.

Clancy Denton (26:38)
We made our choice. So it's not the wrong choice. It was the choice that we decided to make. People may not agree with it, but it was our choice.

Rick Denton (26:46)
And I think that's very, very true. I think it's easier to make that when you do see them being responsible adults in other ways as well.

Clancy Denton (26:58)
Yes, yes, that does make you want to help them out when things do.

mess up their plans, which we all know. Like I said, that will continue to happen. So let them be a kid for a little bit longer while they can. yes. So I'm sure y'all have all had things that you've helped your kiddos out with, or, you know, maybe you've chosen to tell them, I can't help you out this time. Maybe you, maybe you just can't. And that's

valid reason too. So, you we hope y'all enjoyed this episode and check us out at theloudquiet.com and also check out our book on Amazon, The Loud Quiet And thanks for joining us on another episode of The Loud Quiet.