Balancing Boundaries in the Empty Nest - E55

Rick Denton  0:00  
There's a boundary that I've set. I don't turn on reading notifications. You want to know whether I got your text or not, you're gonna have to ask but it is true, if

Clancy Denton  0:06  
you see someone on your phone pop up, you don't have to answer it. This is the loud quiet living the empty nest. Well,

Rick Denton  0:14  
hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the loud quiet. We are in Episode 55 which I chuckled because, as you can tell, we're on the road. And Sammy Hagar song, I can't drive 55 I was thinking about, can you even imagine that being the speed limit on highways? How I remember it? What a torture that would be. Now, as I'm going at 75 and I'm not even speeding right now. So So

Clancy Denton  0:44  
yeah, so we are headed from Tucson to Phoenix. So this one is a little bouncy if you're watching. It's just the we've got to invest in some better equipment for recording in the car. We just didn't think about that before we left. So, so if you're watching it's a little bouncy, we're

Rick Denton  1:07  
supposed to offer a trigger warning or anything like that. Like if you are prone to being triggered by jiggly screens, maybe just put it on audio this time. So

Clancy Denton  1:15  
we have been out here. We just came out for the weekend to visit Tegan, and you know, we were talking about, well, what should we talk about? Because we know y'all don't want to hear just what we did with her, all we did. So I kind of started thinking about the topic of boundaries. And it's interesting, because before I even, or before I had even shared with you what my thought was, several things came up. And then even at breakfast today, when we were with Tegan, we were talking about some things that she's dealing with too good, like this is not going to be a, because it's not going to be a. Oh my gosh. She was crying at breakfast, like some of our ones at this time last year. No, everything is good. So anyways, it was just interesting though, that that topic had popped into my head, and then things had come into play that we can actually talk about it

Rick Denton  2:16  
and it, this isn't just, you know, like you said, boundaries a team was bringing up. There's, there's things that we're discovering, as we've now been in the empty nest for a year, that there's boundaries to be understood, boundaries to be created, and boundaries to, I guess, just navigate through.

Clancy Denton  2:35  
And I think, you know, yes, throughout all aspects of life and all stages of life, boundaries are always there. And I think that's again become one of those words, buzzwords that when we were in younger we probably didn't think of it as setting a boundary. It was just, you know, the way things were ordered, the way things happen that.

Rick Denton  3:07  
And I think the idea of being able to permit it to socially acceptable to set boundaries is more in line with today's current culture than in the past, whereas you would almost just have to, well, know, I'm going to be polite or I'm going to sacrifice more of myself. And this isn't boundaries. Aren't automatically just about how selfish can I be? Right? We're living in a society here. And so there is a a balance to be struck. I think there's just greater awareness of boundaries are not only healthy for you, but they're healthy for those against whom, those that you've set the boundaries with.

Clancy Denton  3:52  
And I think because that has become more of a topic, or I think again, we've been given the tools to be able to do it in a way that's not, no, I don't want to do this. Or, No, I don't want you to be here right now. No, I, you know, we've been given, and you know, we actually got to see a display of that this morning, but, but I thought we could talk about, you know that we have boundaries that may need to be set in regarding a couple of things in our lives. We have boundaries as parents that we may need to be setting some things. It hasn't been an issue yet. And then, you know, we even talked about, and we'll get into each one of these deeper boundaries between spouse to spouse and the empty nest. What's

Rick Denton  4:50  
unique about those boundaries inside the empty nest? Yeah, and I guess a fourth one is what we observed this morning of watching our child set out. Reason, maybe not empty nest. It was encouraging to see it. It's interesting. You said, I can't remember the exact sentence that you said, but oh, we have more tools. It is interesting. And now, because of the connectivity that we have that there's also, there's so many tools or devices or things that makes setting boundaries even harder. In the 70s, if I didn't want to interact with someone, well, I just took the phone on the hook.

Clancy Denton  5:33  
There may be a few technical glitches in this one. We apologize. So that brings up the point of, okay, let's, let's talk about the one involving Tegan. We had a great weekend with her and her friends. As always, just hearing their stories always just cracks me up. They're having a great time living together. You know, we took three of them out to dinner one night. We took seven out the next night. You know, it's just, it's just fun. We went and played golf and stuff. So that pretty much sums up our you and I got to get in a hike to one of the places that we really enjoy going. So pretty, so great weekend. And then this morning, when we got to breakfast, you know, I told her, I said, Hey, can Can I set a boundary? I said, can it just be the three of us for breakfast, because we've had her friends the entire time. She's like, Oh yeah. She said, I kind of already had that in mind too. So you know, she is the only one with a car and who drives her apartment. You'll also be getting the ways alerts, if you like. So she's the only one with a car, and, well, one that has a driver's license. And so she has become the Uber everywhere. And you know, she doesn't mind when she's going to the grocery store. She always offers hate who needs to go. She drives them to school because they all start at the same time. But, you know, she got a text from one that said, hey, so and so needs to go to the store today. Can you do that? And Tegan was like, Well, why are you asking me instead of the person? And so she was getting irritated, but then worked it out, and she's and she said, You know, I've just told them, no one, I don't want you to tell me the day of that you need to go somewhere. And two, you know, we've been out all weekend. Why didn't you bring it up? Then when we were out. So she set her boundary, and she gave future directions on how to approach it. And she also told this person, hey, don't go to the other roommate, come to me directly, and everything was resolved. And she said, I really love that I can have conflict with this group of people, her roommates, and we can resolve it. And she said, and I don't just get left on red, which is what we were taught when you said there's

Rick Denton  8:11  
a boundary that I said, I don't turn on read notifications. If you want to know whether got your text or not, you're gonna have to

Clancy Denton  8:18  
ask. But it is true, if you see someone on your phone pop up, you don't have to answer it. But what

Rick Denton  8:26  
was great about that is it demonstrated to us, and even in the telling of the story, that clear boundaries actually reduce conflict. And I think without clear boundaries, there's a more likelihood that the risk of conflict is there, because what is most conflict, most conflict is misaligned expectations. Well, when you have a boundary set ahead of time, the expectation is set ahead

Clancy Denton  8:54  
of time, yeah. So that was the one you know, that we actually got to see play out today. So that was awesome that I had thought about this topic before that even happened. You know, another one that we're dealing with, and you can speak to this one.

Rick Denton  9:15  
And what I like about this is this isn't a situation where it has to do with my family. It has to do with the handling of my mom's estate, and just what we call kind of Austin stuff and in general, there aren't individual conflicts inside of there. There's just a heavy volume of activity to the point that you and I were saying, it was on Saturday that we looked at you, looked at me, and Swan said, you realize that we didn't have any Austin text or phone call today? And it got us to thinking about, even in something that is, it's normal, right? We are trying to handle my mom. State, and that involves coordinating between three individual families, and the difficulty of just the labor associated with it, the decisions that have to be made. It may be the kind of thing that we have to talk about, sort of almost a we'll handle this on business days, on work days, or those sorts of things, because it really was every day there was something new, even on a day where you and I think it was last Tuesday, we had so much going on in our own lives, I was busy with my work. You were busy with all the activities and work elements that you had, and then something unexpected from Austin popped in that had to be handled. That took time. That was and

Clancy Denton  10:44  
even on another day, when you and I texted each other, we were both at work, and I had gotten pulled in, and it was totally fine. It wasn't anything negative or anything. But I wasn't expecting to get a text from Austin and I got my real

Rick Denton  11:08  
important point is that none of these things were bad. This isn't like setting a boundary around health or abusive relationships or covid, any of that kind of the word Those are real. We sort of came to the realization that there's a time to set boundaries, even when the the thing that you need to set the boundaries, it's actually good, yeah, yeah. But it's just there needs to be a balance in how much of that consumes our mentality and our for anything else our time. Well,

Clancy Denton  11:40  
what I said is it's just seeping into every orifice. It's like pouring gas. But again, like you said, it's not anything negative. It's just mental energy and time that you weren't necessarily planning on putting towards that and and it pops up. And

Rick Denton  12:01  
in the empty nest, I think there's even and I'm not even talking about others assuming that about me, or others assuming that about us. I think I, in my head, I'm like, Well, I've got more time, so I can always say yes to handling something. I can always say it because I don't have that whole category of kids involved, it's an empty nest, and that's where I think I'm I'm gonna have to learn, is probably we're gonna have to learn that just because we're empty nest doesn't mean that it's always Yes, right?

Clancy Denton  12:32  
Oh yeah. And I think we've talked about that just in everything you can't, you know, we had a lot going on last week, getting back from Austin, getting ready to leave for Arizona. We had life group in there. We had, you know, a couple of appointments there. So it it's all good. Oh yeah, it does. And, you know, on, I think, Tuesday night, after our life group, which was excellent, we had a great time. Both you and I were like, okay, we can breathe for a couple of days, and then we're off to Arizona, which we love. So that was a good, good way to end the week. But yes, we, you know, if it does become, I hopefully things will start getting wrapped up. It shows

Rick Denton  13:25  
the need to do those boundaries, right? I'm going to set a boundary on Austin talk right now. We're going

Clancy Denton  13:31  
to cut that I was done.

Rick Denton  13:35  
We're putting a boundary. There's the other one that you talked about in that we're discovering the empty nest that Well, you always want to say yes to your kids, but now, when your kids in town, what does that mean?

Clancy Denton  13:47  
And Tanner has by no means crossed any boundaries. There has been some unexpected things that have come up, but it's been fine, but yes, it'll you know, now that I think we were both because he did a trip this weekend as well. So I think now that we're back and like, next week is next weekend, is his family weekend, Parents Weekend. And, you know, I didn't know if law school does that. And yes, they do. And so again, I think we already talked about that, you know, I don't know if we talked about this in laws, but he said, you know, maybe we'll do something Friday night, and then Saturday as well. And, you know, you and I were both like, of course, set up what you want to set up. We'll do it. But in our heads, we're like, can we just do Saturday? Because two days in a row, so but, but we will do on this one whatever he wants to do,

Rick Denton  14:44  
and that's what we're trying to figure out, though, and that is with someone who is in town, and fortunately, I use actually the word fortunately, he's not 10 minutes away, he's 35 minutes away, so it's not just a snap of the fingers and you're there. But what does it look like? What. Does it look like to how often do you talk? How often do you interact with how often do you go to dinner? How often do you shop? What? What does that look like? Well, sorry, it's undefined.

Clancy Denton  15:12  
And I think a lot of it too is, you know, I had visions of, and this is more of when our kids are older of okay, let's do pick a night, Sunday night dinners at our house, or whatever. So I kind of envisioned when he came back, that, Oh, maybe we will do something like that. The problem is, we've been gone, I think, almost every weekend since he's you know, and we have still lives going on. So I had visions of, you know, maybe he would come over and, you know, meal prep or something. But like I said, we've been gone, and so maybe now that things, you know, we're we're home for a couple of weeks, but we do have family weekend next weekend, and that may not ever come to fruition, but I would like to figure out a way that we can see him in a more planned out way than just sporadic.

Rick Denton  16:10  
That's where boundaries come into play. It's boundaries and and it's rhythms, because what you're describing are rhythms. Yeah, of this is how we operate. This is how and that has to be figured out together. And that's, you know, it's the healthiest boundary. Is the one that both sides set together. I imagine, whether Tanner has expressed it consciously or it's subconscious, as a young adult, like he's the age I was when I was in my first real job, he's just in law school. I guarantee he's setting boundaries. Oh, and

Clancy Denton  16:42  
yeah, and I would never be the parent that just knock, knock shows up on your door. You know, we're paying for those so I can show up. And I would never do that. But I'm also open to the spontaneous of, Hey, y'all want to just come down here for dinner tonight? Or the only problem with that is that I am such a planner, even now in the empty nest that I still have our meals planned every single night, I you know, so which I've gotten better about, oh, I can just and I've also gotten better about buying stuff that I know if I need to shelve it for a day, can, but I

Rick Denton  17:16  
love I'm still grinding on the idea that pop in because, of course, there's Everything in our life. It goes back to Seinfeld when Jerry was worried about the parents moving back at George had to deal with the pop ins, and then his parents got separated the double pop in so, yeah,

Clancy Denton  17:31  
yes, I would never do that to any of our children, but beyond that. So then the last one that we wanted to talk about is if boundaries that need to be set in the emptiness with each other.

Rick Denton  17:49  
And this one's kind of improv, because when we went into this conversation, we weren't talking about boundaries between each other, it was the boundaries that we set externally. Well, what does that look like in a committed marriage to have boundaries towards the individual spouse. And

Clancy Denton  18:06  
I made the point that I don't think that's been an issue for us unless you're about to drop some money or something,

Rick Denton  18:15  
because I've done this that's 55 episodes leading up to this point to discuss the boundary that I'm waiting to drop on.

Clancy Denton  18:22  
I drop on, because we do still enjoy being around one another. We still like we like the same things for the most part. We are doing this podcast. You know, there are now. There have been times with the podcast. Hey, do you think we can record today? And it's been, no, I just can't. Yeah, so we have had to, I'd say that's probably our biggest boundary setting. Thing has been stuff revolving around the podcast.

Rick Denton  19:00  
I think we're the mindset, though, not the vehicle on shoulder, vehicle on the shoulder. I think in the empty nest, one of the risks, and part of why we haven't experienced this risk yet, one of the risks is what happens when one spouse retires, versus the other, right? And even in Well, let's talk about a boundary that you set with me before we were empty nesters, and it was when I became an independent consultant, you looked at me and said, So where are you going to get an office?

Clancy Denton  19:33  
Yeah, that

Rick Denton  19:36  
was we have a fully functional, totally fine study in the house. Yet it was a, this is a house that I am accustomed over the last decades of spending in time by yourself during the day. Yes, where are you going to be? Rick, yes,

Clancy Denton  19:55  
so, and that's, you know, that was my point this morning. When we talked about that one was that I think that probably more so happens with, as you said, when one or both are retired, because you know, when you've had a job that you've been going to and or both been going to, then you're just both at home. Okay, what do we do?

Rick Denton  20:22  
Well, in it's the boundary of of whether it's explicitly stated or it's understood that while I not the general, i not i Rick, but a spouse saying, Hey, I'm committed. I love you, but I'm not here to be your entertainment, and especially if there's one spouse that has been more of the worker than the out of the home worker than the other spouse, I see that being a risk of all right, I'm here. What are

Clancy Denton  20:54  
we doing? I don't know.

Rick Denton  20:56  
I do what I do because generally,

Clancy Denton  20:59  
and I would say, because generally you do have one spouse in the, you know, partnership that is more of the social planner, yes, and so yes, if the one who has not been doing that is now looking for that one to fill the time. You know, this also goes back to our episode a couple of weeks ago that, you know, get involved now in groups and other activities. You know, my parents are still very heavily involved in their church. If they didn't have that, I don't know what they would be doing to fill their days, because most of their activities revolve around things that they are still doing with their church so,

Rick Denton  21:46  
and that's a boundary that we haven't had to deal with, although, as I've pivoted into what I'm doing now, which is less of a you know, these the days schedule is a fixed, or near fixed schedule filled with meetings and that sort of thing, now that it's a little more fluid, we haven't set sort of explicit boundaries around home or that kind of stuff, but I know that I at least pay some attention in my own mindset of all right, am I coming home too early? Or, you know, what is it that you had planned? So understanding? Yeah, it doesn't that's about because there's also me saying, Well, yeah, I live here too.

Clancy Denton  22:26  
No and, and I think especially when the kids were home, and I knew what time they would be home, if you said, Hey, I'm going to be home early, then I'd be like, because I didn't have any of my now it doesn't, it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. So

Rick Denton  22:46  
you know, there's a boundary that we haven't talked about, and I don't even know if it's one that needs to be said, but I've been doing my independent consulting for seven some odd years, and now you're coming into the business. Are we going to find that there are role boundaries that we'll have to set, and is that going to be a challenge?

Clancy Denton  23:10  
Well, I've already set boundaries with I work from two to four, and actually more things have now come into, you know that, sure, I have gone outside that boundary. So

Rick Denton  23:27  
you've gone to 415

Clancy Denton  23:30  
Okay, now it's, you know, what

Rick Denton  23:34  
kind of the functional space, and I talked about it too before. You know, I have a way of doing things, and do I have to set that boundary of No, this is the way I want it done in my business, or do I flex on that boundary, knowing that there's wisdom that you bring into that? So those kind of boundaries, and how do you break some of those boundaries are going to be interesting for us to continue to explore as you work in the business

Clancy Denton  23:59  
well, and that that police reported ahead, that could be said also in the house, because I have the ways that I have been doing things for the past 20 some odd years. And, you know, I see when we're at the house more often is it gonna be? No, I don't do it like that, like just today, watching Keegan do her groceries like you were dying. I was like, you can do it how you want to do it was so inefficient. Just

Rick Denton  24:35  
under your breath to yourself, I saw it,

Clancy Denton  24:40  
no, and then you repeat it. You said it louder, and she looked at I was like, No, I didn't say that for her to hear.

Rick Denton  24:47  
I'm trying to break down boundaries and communication to help everybody understand.

Clancy Denton  24:53  
I'm so helpful. Yes? So anyway, yeah, I think you know, I. That. It's just interesting how you know this is episode 55 trying to come up with content which we would love, things from the outside as well, and we are going to have, we've got to get back into having guests on we just have to be in one place to be able to have guests. So, you know, we want to do that, but it is just interesting how this topic just pretty much came to me, and we filled how many ever minutes talking about it, and had examples, one of which happened today. So yeah, boundaries

Rick Denton  25:42  
are they're hard to set, they're vital to set, they're healthy to set, and they're important to break, when you realize that it's time to break those boundaries.

Clancy Denton  25:55  
So there you go, from the road,

Rick Denton  25:59  
wisdom, oh, something or rambling from

Clancy Denton  26:05  
the poison there road rambles on the loud, quiet lighting the empty nose.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai