Communicating better as empty nesters with Rebecca Mullen E144

Clancy Denton (00:00)
This week on the Loud Quiet Communicating Better is Empty Nestors with Rebecca Mullen.

Rick Denton (00:05)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the loud, quiet. Got a question for ya. What is the one thing you probably could always do a little bit better in your relationship? I bet you feel like you could always get a little bit better with communication. That's why we are so excited about today's guest.

Clancy Denton (00:22)
Yes, we are so happy to have Rebecca Mullen. She's an artist, writer, and coach. Her latest book is Six Steps to Better Marriage Communication. And her podcast is Habits for Your Happily Ever After. We're seeing a theme here, and I love it. So her book first focuses on the small, repeatable habits that transform how couples communicate. She is full of knowledge. We have had the honor of being her on her podcast and loved our conversation.

So we are so happy to have Rebecca on today. Rebecca, welcome to the loud quiet.

Rebecca Mullen (00:56)
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Rick Denton (00:58)
It it's always fun when you get the chance to talk to someone that we were on your podcast and it's a fantastic podcast. Everybody, it's in the show notes, scroll down, you'll be able to get access to it there. But you get to know a little bit more about the person when you are on theirs and it the insights that you have around relationships and communication and specifically around marriage, this idea that there are three roles in a marriage.

Talk to me about those roles. How do they get out of balance? And and really I think what we're all hoping is how can we improve at all three of those roles?

Rebecca Mullen (01:32)
Right, right. I love this. I you know, I I've been coaching people for two decades and I began to notice a theme when I coached people, and so I just invented the idea that I saw these three patterns, three modes of communication: partner, lover, and friend. Partners want to achieve together, they make great teammates. Friends

want to belong to each other and feel understood and understand their sweetheart. And lovers fill life with novelty and excitement and vitality. And ultimately that often leads to a sexual encounter. But the lover is really bringing energy into the relationship.

Rick Denton (02:22)
I love those three categories. Like you hear so many ways to consider what a a a marriage and and and your activities inside of a marriage would be, but those three categories really resonate with me. Those are all very appealing things to to do, but I think all of us would want to try to do those better. How can folks really get after understanding those roles and then focusing on improving in those roles?

Rebecca Mullen (02:47)
Yeah, it's so true that and and improvement I think is in dealing with the balance overall. Now we can we can talk about improvements inside each one if you want to go that way. But at first I want to just talk about how to improve the overall balance because oftentimes in a long marriage where you've been dealing with kids and buying a house and managing careers and all the invisible labor.

That goes with all of those things, the partner role begins to step up. And partners, you know, that have a checklist. These are the things we need to accomplish today. But what happens is the partner can kind of hog all the energy, and that lover role that brings in vitality and excitement gets neglected because we're so busy doing partnership tasks that we aren't thinking about.

How do we play together? What what do we want to do together this month that would be exciting or that would just be fun, that would invigorate us? Most couples I see there is an imbalance between the partner role and the lover role. And so a quick improvement would be to kind of take a self-assessment of your relationship and say, How are we good at partnership tasks?

How are we good at the lover vitality elements of our relationship? Does that resonate at all?

Rick Denton (04:22)
It does, because it it reminds me that the phrase that you use a lot, like roommate.

Clancy Denton (04:27)
Roommate. Mm-hmm. Falling into that falling into that roommate phase. And and I know in your podcast you have a whole series on how to date your friend. Like there I think you did a whole series on on that. And I I saw those and I love that. And okay, I wanna ask you, so how did you get into coaching? What drew 'cause I know you were a theater major. Right. So what what drew you into this world? What what interested you to go down this path?

Rebecca Mullen (04:58)
I have been interested in relationship communication since I was five years old and my parents divorced and I had that original wound of a broken family. And my father kind of told me, you know, when when he wasn't being able to communicate with my mother, and I'm just a little five year old girl, and I said, It would help if you would talk to my mom. He said, When you get older, you'll understand why I can't do that. And so from five years on, I was just sort of studying.

What makes it hard to communicate? What makes it easy to communicate? And then I began just growing out of that. I was always talking to people about their relationships, studying relationships. And then I ran into the work of Martha Beck, who she is a very famous coach. And she wrote a column in Oprah's magazine for a long time. And I trained with her. And then I ended up coaching people.

Clancy Denton (05:56)
I love that. You had that insight at such a young age. That's great.

Rebecca Mullen (06:01)
Kind of ridiculously young. Yeah.

Rick Denton (06:04)
Be

stung at at five, but then to be able to and to be able to take that into something. I wanna ask ⁓ those roles again. Yeah. Because I'm thinking about our empty nesters. Yep. And that tension of partner and lover. Yes. I think happened a lot even in our own relationship when the kids were there, like you said, because so much of the productivity and the goal setting is around kids and getting them raised and getting them launched and what that looks like. Well, when they're gone.

Well then that frees up space for lover. Have you seen couples find that difficult to make that transition at that point? Hundred because there isn't really the same and I'm air quoting here kind of reasons to be a partner, but they've forgotten how to be the lovers.

Rebecca Mullen (06:49)
Well, I think you've just hit on the most common imbalance is you're so focused on all that partnership energy. And you find a lot of intimacy in being teammates together, raising these kids, getting them launched, but you forget to, you know, look just into the eyes of your lover and go, What is important to me about

My person. And I know, you know, the two of you, Rick and Clancy, have been so intentional about I remember the question you asked at first when these kids were about to launch and you said, Do we have things we can still talk about? You know, are we gonna be friends when when we and so what you did is you built yourself a scaffolding of how are we gonna be intentional about dating?

How are we going to be intentional about bringing new people into our world? And by having new experiences or new people, you invited that lover energy to be rekindled.

Clancy Denton (07:55)
think we had maintained definitely the friendship and the partner aspect. I think baseline. Yeah, but I think as with probably a lot of your listeners too, because you have a lot of younger listeners as well, that lever aspect sometimes gets pushed, I think, to the side a little bit. And so, you know, but I think that we had done a pretty good job of

Rick Denton (08:02)
Face sign lover aspect.

Clancy Denton (08:23)
Of maintaining that along the way.

Rick Denton (08:25)
It helped us for sure. I I think it's interesting that I think almost recognizing that the lever gap was there and then also as we chose to lean more into being partners, that almost oddly enough, that d building this podcast together and all that we did there almost connected us in a way that allowed us to even explore that friendship and that lover aspect of it.

Rebecca Mullen (08:47)
But here I wanna I wanna make an observation because I think you guys partnering up to do a business is sort of sexy and vi and and full of vitality because you're both learning all these new things, you're meeting all these new people when you ask them to guest on your show. So and and I wanna make a distinction for your listeners between we have a good sex life and

were great lovers. And because that lover energy is inviting the magnetic, the s the sexy energy that you know what it feels like when you look across the room at your sweetheart and you s you've seen them every day for years and years and years. And they just feel familiar. That is wonderful friend energy. You feel like you belong to each other.

But when your sweetheart goes out and gets a whole new outfit or a whole new look, or you're seeing things come out of your sweetheart's mouth because there's now a microphone and this whole intention of a show to build, you go, Hey, I didn't even know that would be who you are. And that's exciting. And

Clancy Denton (10:03)
We've had those moments, yes.

Rick Denton (10:05)
Some and sometimes that surprise goes well and sometimes that surprise goes yeah a little off the rails a bit.

Rebecca Mullen (10:12)
But but off the rails is good too, don't you think? Because then you kinda go, Hey, I didn't I didn't like that. And yeah. And I think being a good lover is about being selfish and saying, This is what I want in my relationship. And when two people show up with I want energy, that can light a fire.

Clancy Denton (10:39)
Okay, I wanna shift back to we've talked about roles, back to somewhat of communication. Okay, saying sorry because we have been dealing, even with our daughter has been dealing with a situation this week of why it's so hard for someone to say I'm sorry and one of the things

You know, you have the four steps to a good apology, but you also say that you can start an apology and without b any intention it could come out and make things worse. So explain explain that to us.

Rebecca Mullen (11:20)
Yeah. I think sorry is one of the things that will build or affirm your relationship when you can do it in a skilled way. Right. But we hesitate as a species to say sorry because it's sort of like saying, I did it wrong. And our you know, ancient ancestors, if you did it wrong and you were banned from the tribe.

You died. All right. So it's scary to think that we might do it wrong. And that I think accounts for why people are so reluctant to say I'm sorry, or to even notice that they maybe didn't show up as their best self. But if you can recognize that any relationship that has the intensity of you're gonna share a front door, so everybody that comes in your house

is somebody that both of you are gonna interact with at some level and you share a toilet, which is like all the private s you know, most private and yucky stuff that you want to flush away. If you're gonna share all of that, there is no way you're gonna avoid needing to apologize occasionally. And so just kind of going in with the assumption that apologies are going to be normal. So let's get good at this. So step one is

To say I'm sorry and to mean it in your body. A lot of people say, ⁓ I'm sorry that and you can feel them saying, I'm sorry you feel that way. yeah. But not, I'm sorry. I did something that I want to do better in the future. So first step, say sorry and mean it. And you might have to go exploring before you can do that authentically. Step two is to say

I did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm sorry because I did this thing where you were trying to talk to me and I wasn't a hundred percent present. That way you own your behavior. Step three is to mention how that you imagine how that makes your sweetheart feel. I'm sorry, you were trying to talk to me and I was checked out.

And I imagine that makes you feel really like I don't see you and I don't value your feelings. Step four is to acknowledge a plan for the future. So I'm sorry, I you wanted to talk to me and I was distracted. That probably makes you feel invisible. Here's my plan for the future. When you want to talk to me, and you can see I've got my phone in my hand.

Would you just touch me on the shoulder and say, Hey, this is one of those moments. I want your full attention. And that way you kind of can you s can you imagine how if you apologize like that, it would actually make conflict a window of connection possibility.

Clancy Denton (14:32)
Right. Right.

Rick Denton (14:33)
Yeah. I'm sitting here thinking of all the apologies that I've heard and all the apologies that I've given. I've I've maybe think three percent have hit at least some portion of your form

Clancy Denton (14:45)
Yeah.

And early on in our well, early on and even into I'd say, you know, younger years of our marriage, it was I was so bad at it and you would always be like, We didn't have closure. I didn't get the closure of the because I would say I'm sorry but then I wouldn't go on any further. No, I've gotten

Rick Denton (15:08)
I didn't say better. No, I'm saying but it still occurs, right? That we are we are always looking for that closure. You know, we're looking for that closure. What you described there is such a moment of clarity. Very organized, very clear. And you also talk about that in your book of the steps of getting clear. And you referred to this black hole of confusion that's making communication difficult. I love the idea of communication and clarity, and yet we seem to live in a world of those black.

Clancy Denton (15:18)
Right.

Rick Denton (15:38)
Talk to me about that.

Rebecca Mullen (15:40)
Well, I mean, you've hit on the reason that we often need to apologize is when you're when you're s having sex with somebody, you there's this gorgeous oneness that happens between you. And that oneness feels amazing until the downside is I feel so one with you that

I imagine you can read every thought I have and I imagine that we think exactly the same about everything. So you make all these assumptions and you

Clancy Denton (16:17)
Ha ha ha

Rebecca Mullen (16:20)
What do you think is the is the where is where what's the black hole that sucks the two of you in the most?

Clancy Denton (16:31)
I think it's when someone says something and it gets taken differently than how that person meant it to be said. Totally. It's heard differently than it was said.

Rick Denton (16:46)
And and I and I have found a lot of times that comes when there's baggage from the past being brought into the present. So there's an assumption that a behavior is a s a behavior is motivated by something based off of what that behavior was motivated on in the past. But today's behavior may have had nothing to do with that, but that past baggage often brings a lot of that black hole of confusion to us.

Rebecca Mullen (17:11)
And so one of the clarity statements that I recommend in this moment is, ⁓ I can see I just hurt your feelings. Let me back up and tell you what it's like to be me in this moment and why I just said that. Because that owns the behavior. It's sort of like that step in the apology. When I own my behavior as mine, then what you hear, I'm kind of inviting you to own what you hear.

As a reflection of who you are inside. And so if I say, ⁓ this is what it's like to be me, I I wasn't trying to make some comment about how tidy you are. I was just saying I'm feeling overwhelmed. And then the other person is free to go, ⁓ well, the reason I looked like I had hurt feelings is in the past, whenever you've mentioned the untidy moment.

Clancy Denton (17:57)
Yeah.

Rebecca Mullen (18:09)
You're really it's really a sideways dirty asking way of telling me I'm a lousy ⁓ roommate to use that language, you know.

Rick Denton (18:19)
That is so true because I'm think I mean so many of the conflicts that you and I that we may have had is rooted in exactly that, that one of us will say a sentence and on the surface the sentence just means what the sentence means, but the feelings or the way that sentence was received has such a completely different perception. And having to like what you said, ooh, I didn't mean that. Let me tell you actually what I was saying, or vice versa, as opposed to how it may

appears to have made you feel. ⁓ man. It's messy. It's messy.

Rebecca Mullen (18:53)
It's and it is this black hole that sucks you in without your permission. And so I try to have these little phrases that are like the vortex out of the black hole. And I love that one of, ⁓ this is what it's like to be me in this moment. I think I hurt your feelings.

Clancy Denton (19:12)
So that's okay, you said, you know, that's with your partner, someone you're intimate with. I love ⁓ the podcast and it's because we've actually done this. You're dysfunctional family bingo and other holiday games, and we we have actually on the way to Thanksgiving, you know

Every family has fa members that have their quirks. And so we're like, okay, who's gonna do this first? Who's gonna do this first? So we've actually done that in the car, made a bingo card. So how do you do that with people that, you know, you're not on that intimate level with you know, how how does that work? 'Cause you may not be able to say something like that, but something may get misconstrued or they may some say something that

You know, I don't like the way you cut those carrots, like you said in your on the bingo card.

Rebecca Mullen (20:07)
Right. Yeah. I think i i here's the thing, especially with the f those family gatherings that happen once, twice or three times a year, the as much as possible, if we can just stay in our own business and say, People are gonna say things today that are gonna hurt my feelings. Ha what do I want from this holiday meal, this Thanksgiving meal, or this Fourth of July celebration?

I want a happy time. So if somebody criticizes the way I put the snack tray together, I'm gonna go, you know, I'm just a lousy snack tray maker. Or or, you know, my snack tray is clearly not up to your standards, but you're welcome to make your own next year. Or you know, but just being able to be like bumper cars bumping off of each other and and

And instead of letting those stabs, because man, our family knows exactly which buttons to push, right? Yeah, they do. And in s it's almost like cutting cutting the wire that makes the circuit happen, you know. Somebody mentions the snack tray and then you go, In childhood, you never you know And if you can just imagine sniffing that cord so it doesn't make the circuit around.

Ha ha ha.

Clancy Denton (21:34)
Have you been with me and my brothers? I think you have.

Rebecca Mullen (21:38)
There

are definitely some some

Rick Denton (21:40)
circuit breakers that I have witnessed as a third party in some of those conversations.

Clancy Denton (21:45)
So do you find yourself because you know you are the you have this role. Do you find yourself when you have those family gatherings? Are you seeing yourself as being the role of the coach? Do you have to step in sometimes or do you just sit back and let people work it out? How how does that work when you have all of this training and knowledge? How does that work?

Rebecca Mullen (22:13)
You are so funny, Clancy, to think that anyone in my family would want coaching from me. Right. I mean, the last thing that a family reunion needs is someone running around moderating relationships, you know.

Clancy Denton (22:28)
Are you doing it in your head?

Rebecca Mullen (22:30)
Well, I think in my head I'm going, how can I create an environment for people to get along? You know, so water balloons or, you know, some kind of game that makes people laugh. And I I have a whole list of questions that are these super silly but spontaneous, hey everybody, what's your favorite ⁓ season of clothing to wear? And it's such a non sequitur. Nobody asks that.

kind of thing. And so it kind of captures people's attention away from whatever the needling thing of the moment is and go, season of clothing, why are you asking? ⁓ but for

Rick Denton (23:13)
And and the idea of it sound like to your point of it, it cuts it's it's the circuit breaker. It it it disrupts that flow that it that suddenly you're arguing about the childhood snack tray when you were four years old. And that really kind of breaks that that conversational trap is what it sounds like. You had said something ⁓ it was it was a just a little while ago where you're talking about w trying to get what you wanted out of a relationship and how that can be so hard when we're talking about communication. And

Why is that? Why is it so hard for us to be able to communicate and actually get the things that we want out of a relationship? Is there a way for us to manage that better?

Rebecca Mullen (23:53)
⁓ I love this question. And the answer is hard. I mean, if you when we all want to be loved, you know. ⁓ what I want I want you to want me. That do you know that song I want

Rick Denton (24:13)
And you sit in the exact rhythm.

Clancy Denton (24:16)
Yeah. huh.

Rebecca Mullen (24:18)
And so because we want to be wanted, we just are these little need ⁓ sucker fish walking around trying to get what we want. And if we can just switch the fli, you know, ⁓ flip the script to what kind of situation do I want to create today? This is what y'all are doing with your book and your podcast. You're saying, what do we want the empty nest era of our life to?

To give us and to give our community. I mean, you're entering your community, creating places for people to belong. And that's probably what you want is to belong. But what you're doing about it is cr is inviting people in. So you are essentially saying, I want you. I want you in my group. I want you in my house. I want you on my podcast. And then when people feel wanted.

They'd cozy up to you like a kitty on a lap.

Clancy Denton (25:21)
Mm-hmm.

Rick Denton (25:22)
I can see that. Yeah.

Clancy Denton (25:28)
Yeah. And we talked about your the healthy habits, but there's one habit in particular. What is the one habit that you teach couples to do that will set their communication on the right track?

Rebecca Mullen (25:46)
Yeah, and this is this is not like gonna fix everything, but it's almost like a litmus test for everything else in your relationship. And so one of the first habits I teach when I'm coaching couples is I ask them to notice the character of their hello when they first encounter their sweetheart in the day. So like ⁓ this came out of an era of my life when

I w I had little tiny toddlers and my husband was coming home from school and he was overwhelmed and he'd had a big day, but I had had a big day with these children and I had felt all alone. And so he'd walk in to say hello and I'd hand him a baby and I'd walk out the door. Well, that's a hello that sounds a lot like goodbye. Yeah. And so I just made a promise to myself that for 30 days.

I was gonna say hello in a way that let him know he was my person. And so I still handed the baby and walked out the door, but I spent 30 seconds saying, How was your day? I'm so glad to see you. I've had a big day. I love that we're partners in this. Do you mind if I go on a walk just to kind of regulate my system? Mm-hmm. And

I it it's fun it's a funny story when I tell clients this did not shift overnight. You would love for me to say that once and my husband to just respond completely differently. But because I had been s intimating goodbye in my hello for years at that point, I had a lot to redeposit in our relationship before my husband felt it. Yeah.

And it was, I'm I'm gonna confess, it was more than 90 days of me just being tenacious about I want him to feel my hello. And there was this one day that I didn't do it any differently, but it was like whatever, the 89th time or whatever, and I saw my husband receive my hello. And all of a sudden, I and I'm getting this feeling in my body right now, I just got washed with those.

loving chemicals of just like, you're my person. And not only were you missing out when I wasn't giving you that hello, I was missing out because I never saw you receive my hello. Ugh.

Rick Denton (28:32)
Yeah.

Clancy Denton (28:34)
And there you there's a podcast episode about that 'cause I saw it and I was like, I wanna go back and listen to that 'cause the title alone just intrigued me, but now you've explained it and yeah, I wanna go back and listen to that.

Rick Denton (28:45)
And listeners, viewers, as you hear us mentioning podcast episodes, all of those will be tagged specifically in the show notes. And ⁓ if you're watching, you'll see in the the YouTube cards as well here as we go through the screen. There's another step that you've talked about in relationship building. Like what you just described there sounds warm. It it it sounds logical, it makes sense to me. But there's one that seems counterintuitive, and it's when you're talking about how building boundaries actually magnifies love.

And conventional wisdom would say by putting up walls and putting up boundaries, you would think that that would be blocking to that. Tell us more about how boundaries actually amplify love.

Rebecca Mullen (29:26)
Yeah. This most people enter my practice saying, I need to learn boundaries in my relationship. And I say, I can teach you that. But ⁓ build boundaries is step six of my book called Six Steps to Better Marriage Communication. It's the last step. And it's the last step for a reason because a healthy boundary is not just this stop sign that you put up in communication or a stop sign that says

This is the way I want you to love me. A boundary is about I respect my self-worth and I will not let you treat me badly. So the very first thing I need to do is I need to get clear about how I want you to treat me. And so the first three steps are about cultivating a clean ask. First, you have to get clear. I mean, when when people first walk in, Rick and Clancy, and they tell me, I want to build a boundary.

And I go, okay, we can do this. What do you want your boundary to be about? And the the deer in the headlights look that comes into their eyes, they're gonna they're like, that's what I want you to help me figure out. And I'm like, ⁓ that's not the way it works. First, we have to get clear about what you want in a loving relationship. And that clarity comes from both answering, you know, questions like, I want

My sweetheart and I to dot dot dot go on dates. I want my sweetheart and I to have pillow talk. I want my sweetheart and I to be great at managing a house together. But all of those desires are often clouded by the black hole of fears from the way we grew up or the way that our picture of relationships was shaped. So we have to overcome the fears in order to get some clarity, in order to ask.

Cleanly for what we want. And then you have an agreement. Then you have to beware of conditional love because a lot of people get clear about what they want. I want you to empty the trash. I want you to be in charge of the trash. And then they agree on that. And then the sweetheart who's now going to empty the trash forgets. And the requesting partner turns their back and gives them the cold shoulder.

See, I knew you didn't love me. You didn't do the thing that you agreed to do. Well, that's not a boundary. That's conditional love. I will love you if you agree, if you do the thing we agreed to. But instead, when I when I teach boundaries, I I'll say there you want to come to a full stop. You see that full trash can. Your sweetheart agreed to empty it.

You see the full trash can, you come to a full stop, and you say, I guess my sweetheart's planning on emptying this later. Or they must have some other agenda about the trash. Maybe they think a full trash can is more full than I think. You know, I'll have people laugh in my office and say, No, no, no, I can squeeze a banana, peel in over here, you know. But giving your sweetheart the agency and the respect.

That they will follow through. That's what you want to do with the boundary. And if your sweetheart keeps not keep you know, forgets to keep the agreement over and over, then you just say, Hey sweetheart, and you touch your sweetheart so you know you've got their full attention. I wanna talk to you about this agreement we had. You promised that you would do the trash.

Rick Denton (33:09)
Yeah.

Rebecca Mullen (33:15)
The trash can has been full. It's overflowing. And then you just let your sweetheart take it from there. What so often happens ⁓ is that people give mixed signals. They go and they empty the trash and with a huffy, you know, like now I'm emptying the trash. Well, that's betraying the boundary, right? That's sending mixed signals.

Rick Denton (33:43)
I can see. I and it w even just the way you're saying that, I can imagine there's still even in my own head I'm like, Well wait, that's not quite a boundary, but yet it is and I understand how it's a different type of boundary.

Clancy Denton (33:54)
And I love though that you use that as the example because people can grasp that example. Sometimes when you hear the word boundary, you're thinking of things that are so much bigger and darker. I love that example because it's relatable to so many people. And we can and as you walked it through all of the steps.

It really is something that we can all grasp and understand. And I also, as you were doing it, I was relating it to, you know, our daughter went through with one of her friends this way. I mean, it it goes through so many different relationships. It doesn't necessarily have to be with your partner. It's just it can be for all. It can be six steps to better communication and friendships. It can be in in everything. So yeah, I love that.

Rebecca Mullen (34:46)
Well, and what you've hit on is that magical moment of we not taking out the trash isn't just about the trash. It's about I feel like you're not respecting me. I feel like, you know. yeah. And that's when you have that full stop conversation and you say, Sweetheart, you agreed to this. Yeah. When you don't do it, I feel like you're dissing our relationship.

And then you just stop again. We're so tempted to go on and on. And that makes me feel like you don't love me. And that makes me feel invisible. And d a boundary is just like call attention and hand over the agency. I believe you will do this. I believe you will figure it out.

Clancy Denton (35:34)
That respect word is is so big.

Rick Denton (35:38)
It is and how trash can be misinterpreted as disrespect is so and whether it's the trash or any other category. Rebecca, I have two questions for you. The first is if folks wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, learn more about this book, like I've already learned stuff here in just this conversation here that I'm like, ooh, ooh, we're gonna take

Clancy Denton (35:58)
Well,

and she offers so many things on her.

Rick Denton (36:01)
What's

best way for them to get in touch with you and learn more?

Rebecca Mullen (36:05)
Well, since they're listening to a podcast, I would invite them to come listen to Habits for Your Happily Ever After with Rebecca Mullen. My website is Rebecca Mullencoaching dot com and I'm on the socials at Rebecca Mullen Coaching.

Rick Denton (36:24)
Okay, so I mentioned I had two questions, but I actually have a bonus question. That is, where can folks find your books?

Rebecca Mullen (36:32)
Yeah, my b my book you can search on Amazon, Six Steps to Better Marriage Communication by Rebecca Mullen, or you can come to my website and find it there and order there.

Rick Denton (36:44)
Here's

that last question. I promise this is the last one, but what season of clothes do you prefer wearing?

Rebecca Mullen (36:50)
Love it. So this is why this is funny for me is I love winter clothing because I get to wear two pairs of tights. ⁓ And that's so idiosyncratic, but it created this incredible pressure relief valve for my sister when she was going through a hard time. And the whole weekend we were together, she just kept shouting at me, I can't believe you wear two pairs of tights.

Clancy Denton (37:20)
⁓ Yes, because you seem like such a free spirit. I wouldn't that you would want to wear two pairs of ties.

Rebecca Mullen (37:29)
Gotta hold all that energy in, Clancy. ⁓

Clancy Denton (37:34)
well, Rebecca, this has been great. Thank you so much for being a guest on the Log Quiet.

Rebecca Mullen (37:40)
You are fabulous hosts and I loved being here. Thanks for having me.