An Unexpected Employment Idea for Empty Nesters with Michelle Puccinelli E140

Clancy Denton (00:00)
This week on the Loud Quiet, an unexpected employment idea for empty nesters with Michelle Puccinelli.

Rick Denton (00:06)
Hi everybody, welcome back to The Loud Quiet. Today we have a guest, Michelle Puccinelli. Michelle, after leaving her job as a high school history teacher 10 years ago, she wandered around the remote work landscape. She was seeking, and those of you that know this world know it's hard to find legit virtual jobs out there. Well

Today she owns and operates Virtual Work Studio. It's a marketing agency with an internship program. The agency supports small businesses, marketing, and operations. While the internship, and get this, the internship provides training opportunities for women to become specialized virtual assistants. And here's something that we didn't expect.

Almost sixty percent of her students are empty nesters, which made us really want to talk to Michelle today. Michelle, welcome to the Loud Quiet.

Michelle Puccinelli (01:09)
Hi guys. Thanks for having me, Rick and Clancy. I appreciate it.

Clancy Denton (01:12)
know, we were so excited when Michelle reached out to us and when we started talking to her and you know, we're like, Okay, why when we saw what you did and we're like, Okay, how what you know, would this be for our audience? And then when you told us that, you know, your clients and and students are empty nesters, we're like, my gosh And when we started talking to you, yeah, it makes sense.

Rick Denton (01:35)
Hey, actually thought di when you were reaching out, Michelle, that initially was like, Well, wait, this should be part of CX Passport. I talk to virtual work studios all the time in my in the business podcast and instead this has become a really important theme for empty nets.

Clancy Denton (01:47)
Yeah.

So okay, Michelle, tell us about the moment that you decided to leave the education field. What led you to make that decision after such an extensive career there?

Michelle Puccinelli (01:57)
Yeah, for me it was really about ⁓ how it fit into my life and the life that I wanted to eventually lead. So I was a new mom. I had just become a mom. and it very quickly dawned on me that teaching is actually not a very flexible and easy career for parents.

Right? Like if the baby gets sick, getting a sub is near impossible. Taking an hour out of the day to go to an appointment is, you know, forget about it. So it was really more about like just where I was in life at that time. I I enjoyed teaching a lot. I loved the career. ⁓ which makes sense why I'm doing what I'm doing now, because I just I get to teach just in a different capacity.

⁓ but it was just more about like I needed a better fit for the longevity of the life that I wanted to lead. So when I left, I I had no idea what I wanted to do and I really, you know, did wander the desert and try to find where I, you know, was was gonna land. And marketing is where I ended up. And from there is where I really kind of found that niche of like building these online businesses and working inside of digital marketing.

⁓ because it really lends itself really well to that flexible own your own time, make your own choices kind of freelance work.

Clancy Denton (03:24)
So then okay, you work for other companies. What made you decide to start your own company?

Michelle Puccinelli (03:30)
Yeah, I can I got to consult for a long time and that was really cool. ⁓ because you get to look behind the scenes of a lot of other people's businesses, right? And you get to kind of cut your teeth on somebody else's dime and in somebody else's software. So that was really, really cool. But my heart has always been with small businesses. Towards the end of my time in consulting, I was working for some really big businesses, which was cool.

⁓ but I just really kind of missed that impact that comes from working with really small businesses. And then as I mentioned, that that teaching side of it ⁓ and kind of figuring out how I could help replicate what happened to me, how I could replicate that for other people. So when I started this company, it was with the intention of just training and just creating a training resource. But as I, you know, w onboarded more and more students.

I realized that they needed that next step. And so I launched the agency because I had, you know, ten years of experience working in client services. So now I could, you know, mirror these two things together. They can train with me in the simulation. And then once they graduate, they can apply to work with us inside of the internship in the agency. And so it becomes this kind of full circle picture.

Rick Denton (04:50)
Yeah, you were talking about well, you you mentioned being in the wilderness. And I think there there can be a lack of clarity in what the definition of even what a virtual assistant actually means. What is it w like we've thrown terms out here like re remote work and virtual work and virtual assistant, but there's a lot of definitions that make it unclear what that job is actually like. What is the the life, the actual job of a VA?

Michelle Puccinelli (05:19)
Yeah, at its core, it is a support position. So oftentimes, you know, we think of it in admin terms, right? Somebody who helps a small business owner manage their inbox or their calendar. But more often than not, they're doing a lot of miscellaneous tasks. And because I was in client services for so long, I realized that the most sought after and in demand VAs also had marketing.

Experience to bring with them, right? They themselves aren't marketers. They're not strategists, but they can speak the language, they know the jargon, they've helped a small business owner post things on Instagram. They know how to program in a blog, all of those kinds of tasks that actually keep the light on in a business. ⁓ but the business owner themselves just doesn't have the time anymore to do them. So a VA can do

anything to support a small business owner and they are working virtual, right? They're not sitting next to you in an office or a cubicle. ⁓ but what we really focus on is that specialized VA who can support a small business owner with their marketing and their operations, the stuff that produces ROI. ⁓

Rick Denton (06:36)
I'm sitting there going, Ha, okay, after we hit stop, I'm going to then ask you about bringing in a VA because so much of that sounds so appealing to bringing into as the business owner you want to focus on the phrase we we don't want to work in the business, we want to work on the business. And so the in the business seems like where the VA can really help.

Clancy Denton (06:56)
Well yeah, we spend so much time on the nitty gritty stuff that the higher level stuff is what we wanna be doing. So yes, it you know

Rick Denton (07:06)
And it can be hard to unlock that time for just thinking 'cause a lot of that requires that s sort of mental space that wait, I've got to go post that post. And it distracts me rather than the okay, wait, let's focus, let's turn on our ambient music and really start to think.

Clancy Denton (07:20)
Okay, so for our listeners, why do you think so many empty nesters are flocking to this type of work?

Michelle Puccinelli (07:27)
Yeah, I was so shocked by it. I think as we normally do as business owners, we create something that solves a problem that we have experienced. And so when I built the program, I built it thinking I was building it for women like me who were, you know, either career changers, they left a corporate career and they wanted to pivot, or maybe stay-at-home moms who were ready to re-enter the workforce. But what I found, as I mentioned to you guys, was actually it was about 60% were these empty nesters.

And I think after talking with so many of them, it is because they are now facing a brand new world where suddenly the house is more quiet. So there's just a little bit more time, right? Some of them are in fact just filling time that didn't used to be there. But the other part of it is now their opportunities have expanded. The opportunity to travel, the opportunity to maybe

move to, you know, where grandkids are living. And so they want virtual work. ⁓ and then there's also just, I think, especially for those that have left after a corporate career or an in-person career, there's also just some like they're kind of tired. They're tired of the grind that a corporate, you know, career can bring. And they're ready to have a little bit more ownership over the scope of work that they do.

Rick Denton (08:52)
I was one learning from you, but also I was chuckling as you were listing off all the things that are great about being an empty nester. It's a little quieter. You've got a little more time. You've got the chance to travel. You want to be where the grandkids are. Like that's almost a bullet point of things that we talk about. And we've talked a lot about how I have confused often empty nesting with

retirement. And that's not the case. A lot of folks have entered into the empty nest, but they still want to work. Or through age discrimination, they've been placed out of corporate worlds or those sorts of things. So there I can it's logical. It wasn't I wouldn't have thought it. It wasn't intuitive, but it's logical why an empty nester would choose this world. What would you say to an empty nester that is looking to make this kind of career pivot?

To make sure that it's the the right career pivot for them, not just a this kind of fits some of those other empty nest boxes.

Michelle Puccinelli (09:52)
Yeah, I actually really love that question. It's something I spend a lot of time with people before they become students, is talking about soft skills, right? So those are those transferable skills that we bring with us from job to job that aren't the tangible things that you're doing at a career. It's just the intrinsic things that you have inside of you. Being organized, being creative, being a problem solver. And so to

be good at and enjoy virtual assisting, there's obviously some soft skills that you need to have. First and foremost is going to be that organization piece, right? If you yourself live kind of chaotically, you might not be well suited to being a virtual assistant. ⁓ the other thing is you have to enjoy that support role. So the responsiveness and the ⁓ you know, just really being

A ⁓ helper by nature has to be something that you enjoy doing. But there is some, like, you know, even I kind of call it like that boss energy because being a problem solver, having forethought, those are the kinds of things that are going to keep you in that role for a long time because your clients are going to love you and they're going to never want to let you go because you are making their life easier.

So if you can think through some potential hurdles that they might experience and then help take those off of their plate, you're gonna be really well suited to VA work.

Clancy Denton (11:30)
So those are skill oriented things. You talked about, you know, coming out of the corporate world and now you're, you know, at home working. What are some of the maybe social type things or even just, you know, okay, I've been in the corporate world. I've been going to an office. Now I'm working from home. What are some of those changes like for people going from, you know, from that side to this side?

Michelle Puccinelli (11:59)
Mm, I like that question. There is a level of self accountability that you have to have in order to be successful in this role and self management. That's a huge part of it. ⁓ I know for me, ⁓ when I went into the marketing world, I actually did some consulting for the government and like worked in an office for a hot minute. And I tell you what, when I fully moved back home to working virtually, I was amazed at how much.

more I was able to get done, not being in an office. So there's also like a real positive shift that happens where it used to take you eight hours a day to do that job. Now you can do it in four hours a day because there's just a lot less meetings and office politics and all of that kind of stuff. ⁓ so they'll be able to like enjoy that as well. But it comes with, you know, that time management piece and not getting distracted by, you know

all of the things that can happen at home.

Rick Denton (13:00)
There's an there's an angle to that question though that and and I realize you aren't running a like a relationship or a coaching or a therapy business, right? You're running a business. But one of the challenges to an empty nester is the lack of ability to build connections, to build social relationships that because the kids have left the house. And then I'm also in this context thinking of, and if someone has left the

corporate world, specifically the in person corporate world, have you seen some of your students struggle with that aspect of their remote work? Or maybe differently said, how have you helped folks navigate that so that they are successful in this remote space?

Michelle Puccinelli (13:44)
Yeah, that community piece I think is such an important part of any virtual worker is making sure that you still have some human connections. ⁓ obviously, for students who are training with us, they have a ton of community. Our program is really unique in that it's not, it's not like a course. There's not videos that they're watching. They're actually coming into our workspace and working through a a sauna project. And

They talk one on one to a mentor. And when they join the agency, they're actually talking to clients. So having more of that human connection, I think, is, you know, an important part of making this successful. The other thing is that I work really, really hard to make sure that our students are successful long term to be a freelancer because that's a whole additional part of this. Most of them will become freelancers.

And the number one way to get clients is to network, whether that is in person networking, BI's, Chamber of Commerce, Main Street events, or just tapping into online communities, getting to know people, and making sure that they know what it is that you offer. So those two things together is you know, working with clients and making sure that you have real connection moments. Get on the phone with them, have a video call.

And then also be sure that you're bringing in that networking piece as well so that you can continue to kind of feed that part of your soul.

Clancy Denton (15:17)
And that's great. Do you and I'm sure that's part of your training as well. And I love that. And I wish that some of these younger kids coming out of college would I wish that was like a required course because they don't know how to network anymore. That's just not a thing. And I wish that was taught to them because they don't know the first thing about it. And that's all we knew how to do when we were coming out.

Rick Denton (15:47)
And so many roles right now start out where the entry level is remote and sometimes even the entire company is remote and so they haven't had that chance to be in person to learn what in person is so that then they can be successfully ⁓ connected in a remote environment like you're describing, Michelle. You were talking about the the youngers. Now

I I'm gonna dab a little bit into stereotype here 'cause I kinda think of Clancy and me being relatively tech savvy. Now there might be a twenty year old that would scoff at what I just said.

Clancy Denton (16:19)
Or our kids.

Rick Denton (16:22)
Think our kids see it. But you're seeing a wide range of tech capabilities that come in. And being a successful B VA, I have to imagine requires not just your basic rudimentary, hey, do you know how to use Excel kind of thing? There's some real technology skills that may not already be native to some of the populations you're bringing in in the empty nest. Yep. How are you helping those folks adapt?

Michelle Puccinelli (16:23)
All right.

Yep. That is ⁓ a huge part of our focus and a again kind of a differentiator about our program in general is that they are actually going to be working inside of the tech. So again, they're not watching a video to learn how to do the back end of meta. We actually created a simulated business suite and we give them access to that. And I make them poke around and schedule posts and look at insights.

They get access to a real WordPress and they have to go through the back end. So the for us, it is incredibly hands-on and tangible. And I would say about 75% of our students don't have much experience with any of the tech. And then they, you know, get to leave the program having said, I now intimately know 18 new, you know, digital tools. So for me, just as a learner in general and as a teacher, we have to.

Do. We have to get our hands dirty. So it is if anybody is looking to add new tools to the their tool belt, you have to actually use them. You have to create an account and get in there and try it out. And that is the number one way to actually figure it out. And it's okay to be messy. For us, we are the safe space, right? We are a simulation. You're not gonna crash anything. So just get in there and be a little bit bold and see how it goes.

Rick Denton (18:14)
Yeah, I kinda worry about that with some when I'm tinkering with our meta ads from time to time, I'm like, please don't break anything. Please don't break anything.

Clancy Denton (18:21)
That so yes. So how okay, so once they've completed your program, then you help them get matched. How do you figure out what companies and how, you know, what's in your arsenal of how to get people matched with, you know, companies out there?

Michelle Puccinelli (18:39)
Yeah. The first thing is that we get to actually hire back our best graduates. That's the best part, right? Is I've built this thing that I get to vet and train my next best employee, which is pretty cool. but then after that, because I, as the business owner here, network my butt off, I meet business owners every single day who are looking to hire their next VA. And most of the time,

They don't know what they need until I tell them what they need, right? They can't put a pin on it until I've described it to them. So once I make those connections, then I will reach out to recent graduates and say, hey, I've got a hot lead for you, you know, and they have been trained in how to do pitches and discovery calls and all that kind of stuff. And it's up to them at that point. But I make so many warm referrals when I can. ⁓ and then, you know, work begets work.

So once they get their first client, then things can kind of start to snowball for them.

Rick Denton (19:40)
Can I I want to focus what you're talking about there? I want to focus in on the business owner. We've talked about the VA. We've talked about the folks inside of your program and your company. But as as we are business owners, and as ⁓ I left the W-2 world in 2017. So plenty of years of where we were running our own business, I have yet to hire a VA, and a lot of it is just simple fear. It's lack of understanding, it's lack of I guess I fear and the confidence that

I can hand this off to a, you know, air quote here, stranger. Yep. W what does a business need to know? I guess you know, let me ask this. What does a business need to know that they say, okay, I am ready for a VA? I need one. And then two, how can they do this successfully?

Michelle Puccinelli (20:27)
Right. the number one thing holding people back from hiring is that they don't feel confident that they'll be able to train that person to do things the way they want them to. And so most of that starts with the boring operation side of things. So if you can start to document your processes as you go along, just throw on a Loom video and record yourself doing all the things.

Having that SOP library will make you feel so much more confident to hand things over. So I would say that is really the first step for most business owners is getting those operations in place. That is something that we do for our clients on their behalf. That's why people hire us, is because we take away some of that like setup and that worry. ⁓ and then the other side of it is that you have to ⁓ be willing.

To spend some real time onboarding the right person. It is very rare that you will ⁓ hire somebody who can like hit the ground running ⁓ on everything, right? There are some things that they'll be able to do, no problem, but they have to get to know your preferences. So I always tell people, especially like when they're, you know, hiring us and working with us in the agency, I always like kind of warn them like, look, this first month.

It's not gonna feel like we are bringing you a ton of relief yet because we're gonna ask you a million questions. You're gonna need to give us access to all of your accounts and stuff. So I try to kind of temper expectations of like this first month is gonna be a lot. And then it gets better and better. It is a relationship and it does take a while to nurture it and get it to a place where it feels like, you know, you can rest easy.

Rick Denton (22:20)
I was chuckling there when you were describing needing to create SOPs and in the back of my mind I'm like, right, but I would want a VA to create those SOPs so that I could then communicate that to the the VA and so the fact that y'all are assistant.

Clancy Denton (22:32)
Well, you what I'm thinking of? It's like a as a mom, I'm thinking, okay, well, it's like anytime you get a new babysitter, you get a new housekeeper, you know, you have to give the you know, onboard them into everything that's going on and bring them in. You know, it is. It it's not it and it doesn't always work out. Okay, so your company deals with marketing specifically.

So for our empty nesters listening, do they need to have marketing experience? If marketing is not their thing, are there other agencies out there that work with other types of VA positions? What what else out there is available that other people can look into?

Michelle Puccinelli (23:17)
Yeah. The first part of your question, no, they don't have to have any experience inside of marketing. They learn that with us. So again, it's not that we are expecting them to be marketing strategists. ⁓ sometimes I'll have interns, you know, who are like, Am I supposed to be able to like tell the client all of that marketing stuff you just told them? And I say, No. You are just trying to support them in their marketing. You you you know the language. ⁓

But for anybody who is looking at a different angle, it's just about being able to get experience in a specific industry. So I have never seen anybody else who's doing what we do where like they're actually getting hands-on experience inside of an industry. But if you can get in as like a general VA, as just an admin assistant.

inside of a department or a company who focuses inside of a certain industry, then you can certainly ⁓ learn. I always, you know, the more you can glean and ⁓ you know, absorb information from the companies that you are working for, the more you're gonna be able to, you know, niche down to whatever your specific offering is.

Clancy Denton (24:33)
So what do you find okay, you said sixty percent you're looking at is, you know, MD nesters. What do you find your other how what's the breakdown of your other groups? I I'm interested to know where you're getting your other clients from.

Michelle Puccinelli (24:47)
I would

say about thirty percent are those younger moms who have either been a full time stay at home mom and now they're looking to get back into the workforce, but in person is not the right fit. They still need that flexibility. And then the the remaining 10% is 20 year olds actually who are kind of like either looking to supplement what they're currently doing or they're like, ⁓ I made the wrong choice in college.

Actually, I want to be an entrepreneur or actually I want to be a marketer or whatever. And so they come to us as that first step into that.

Clancy Denton (25:22)
world. No, I think this is a great option. Yeah. I mean I

Rick Denton (25:25)
It is interesting how it it serves the needs of so many different communities there ⁓ from the employee perspective. you know, Michelle, this really did open my eyes. Like I in our initial conversation, we talked about the empty nesters, but to really get deep into why this would matter to an empty nester, if someone, one of our listeners is saying, This sounds good for me, or just somebody wants to learn a little bit more, what's the best way for them to learn more about you and the work that your agency does?

Michelle Puccinelli (25:53)
Yeah. I would love to connect with anybody ⁓ on Instagram. That's where we are the most prominent. So our handle is just at Virtual Work Studio. You can find us on Facebook as well. ⁓ and then the website is just a really good place to look at the ins and outs of the program. ⁓ join the newsletter if you would like to, you know, get the newsletter. And that's just virtual workstudio.com.

Clancy Denton (26:18)
Yeah, and we will make sure that we include all of that in our newsletter as well and in the show notes. And I could see our listeners being interested and also passing this to their children and grandchildren as well.

Rick Denton (26:34)
And I so I've got a request, listener, if any of you are intrigued by this or actually when you have started doing this, let us know in the Facebook community 'cause I would love to hear your stories of what this is like when you go into becoming this this VA world and what that might look like.

Clancy Denton (26:51)
Yeah, Michelle, I'm so happy that you reached out to us because yeah, this has really been yeah, very interesting and such a topic that, you know, what, ten, twelve years ago wasn't really even a thing. So thanks so much for being on the loud quiet today with us, Michelle.

Michelle Puccinelli (27:08)
You

bet. Thanks for having me guys and sharing ⁓ you know, a little bit of your time and your audience with us.