Why Family Experience Is Key to Your College Student's Success with William & Mary's Heather Deere E153

Rick Denton (00:00)
This week on the Loud Quiet, Why Family Experience is key to your college student success with William and Mary's Heather Deer.

Clancy Denton (00:07)
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of The Loud Quiet. We've been in this season of talking about college moving, new parents, taking kids to college. Conversations tend to revolve around the student, but what about the families?

Rick Denton (00:26)
That's why today we are so excited to be talking with Heather Deere, Director of Family Engagement and Student Affairs Communication at William and Mary. Heather has spent the last eight years helping parents navigate what we would agree with this, one of the biggest transitions in life, and that is sending a kid off to college. She helps families process the emotional side of letting go, along with nudging those students towards that independence that they are.

are going to need to thrive. Heather, welcome to the Loud Quiet.

Heather Deere (01:00)
Hey y'all, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. This is one of my favorite topics, considering it's my whole professional life. So excited to dive in with both of you.

Rick Denton (01:11)
And and when we came to to to know you, that's exactly it is knowing how much not only just it's the career, of course, but how much you care about this, how much the interest just almost oozed from you. You could feel it. And so we're so excited to get that wisdom from you. And I think that may influence some of your approach. You have talked about how your approach there at William and Mary is more of a coaching model rather than traditional family engagement. What is that different look like?

Heather Deere (01:41)
That is such a great question. And for me at William and Mary, it's such an important distinction. And it really leads how my team of two professional staff engages with families from the moment that their student lands at William and Mary or even decides William and Mary until they graduate. So I kind of think about it in in two ways. One, the traditional model really is all about keeping families engaged and informed so they can support their student, which I think is a wonderful baseline for any institution.

And would say most institutions have someone who is facilitating that transfer of information, is what I would say. Our coaching model tends to go a little bit deeper. You mentioned the emotional transition that families are experiencing. And not many people are speaking directly to that. Or sometimes I find there's a fear of maybe we don't step too much into the emotional and we really focus on the logistics. But

All all we're doing here at William Mary is supporting our students, and it's really hard to do that without supporting families holistically. So it's not just here's a deadline, here's a resource. It's why am I sharing this deadline with you? Why is it important? What conversations do you as a family need to have about this resource that I'm sharing with you? It's taking it from a transactional level and really shaping it into something that guides a family through that transition.

I think specifically something we do at William and Mary that's pretty unique is I have this book club for incoming families. and so I send them a book that they read and a little book club kit with highlighters and and flags and a journal. but really the book is about what does the college first year transition look like for the family, not for the student.

We're so focused on what the student is experiencing that sometimes I think we're forgetting that families are just really going through it too, and there are many common experiences for them to navigate. So I think that's a really prime example of how how we're just a little bit different and we're just going a little bit deeper, providing something really substantive. I mean, I tell everyone all the time, there are so many books when you're first becoming a parent or a family member, like there there are just so many.

And there aren't that many about how to support this big life transition. And so there aren't as much resources out there that help families understand that yeah, they're gonna have some feelings too. And they're gonna have questions and concerns and anxieties and emotions just along with their student. And so it's really important here that I'm grounding all of our work in that understanding.

Clancy Denton (04:15)
So you hit the nail on the head with there are not very many books out there about what to do after you get them to college. And you know, you talk about that the client in your case is really the parents, the family. Yes, you work directly with the students as well, but take us through some day to day things that you have to deal with with the families, parents and how that looks for you.

Heather Deere (04:46)
Yeah, I think something I would share with everyone is that almost every institution has someone who is dedicated to supporting families. It's gonna be more obvious at some institutions. I mean, it will even marry these families. I make it painfully obvious. sometimes I joke that by the time the student graduates, they're probably tired of hearing from me. But on a day-to-day basis, that probably looks like we're getting a handful of phone calls or emails. not about like

The basics, sure we get those, but we're getting like kind of the tougher stuff, which is we're six weeks into the semester. I don't think my student is making friends. What on earth do I do? And having more of those really in depth I'm listening, I'm listening for trends. How can we coach your student? How can you coach your student? Is there anything I need to do on my end? So we're having those conversations.

But also I'm just actively thinking and hearing, okay, I've gotten these questions ten times this week. That means in the newsletter of this month I need to include this resource because it's timely and it's relevant.

But then on the flip side, I'm also sharing what's happening with students on campus, because you probably know better than I do that sometimes they're not telling you about what they're up to or you don't hear from them for a week. And then you're wondering, are they doing anything on campus? What's happening? Like what does their life look like? And so I also feel this responsibility to provide families that backwards glimpse into hey, here's what I'm hearing from students. This is what's happening on campus, so that they know when they can have those conversations. So really it's about

Day to day connecting families with the right resources, really thinking intentionally about how I can develop resources that are timely for them, but then providing them that real fun glimpse of what's happening on campus.

Clancy Denton (06:26)
Yeah, we were just talking about this that, you know, we had one child that texted and called all the time. And then when our daughter left it was like, Ooh, a day a two would go by. I was like, Are you good? Are things good? And yeah, it was just so different how they are different.

Rick Denton (06:47)
They the difference and how we discovered the the difference just by them being out of house. Like you you think that your kid communicates in a certain way and then suddenly they're out of the house and it's a completely different experience for families. Now, I will say that we have there's a little hack that we'll share, and that is if you send a text with a photo of a pet

you'll get immediate communication back. It will happen right away. Doesn't matter or any other topic, but show the pet and suddenly your student is fully engaged in the communication.

Heather Deere (07:20)
Hundred percent. I tell families all the time if you schedule a weekly FaceTime update with the dog, you're more likely to get that weekly phone call than if it's just you on the other end. But something we do here too is we used to facilitate care packages during final exams. Now we just do a card that families can write a card and we'll put it in their mailbox for them. And I tell them you will hear back if the card is written from the beloved family pet. You might not hear back if it's written from you.

Clancy Denton (07:49)
I love that. And and when we talked to you earlier on our pre-show call, you know, y'all just do so many personalized things. And I know I know at a school your size, you can do that. And I just I love all those personal touches.

Rick Denton (08:04)
There's this thread, this this theme of like you're you're caring for the parents. And that's something that I I I I'm thinking back to our experience as students. And parents were just almost barely even it felt like while my parents were very loving parents, just barely even aware of my college experience. The only real communication would be that Sunday night phone call because the long distance was cheaper back then on Sunday nights. And our experiences

kind of shaped how we went into the college experience, what we thought existed, what we didn't think existed. You had mentioned to us that you're a first generation college student. So some of those expectations are brand new. How does your first generation experience affect how you work with p families in your world today, both the first gen families and those that have done it for multiple generations?

Heather Deere (08:59)
Yeah, I think this is something that's so important to me and probably shows up the most professionally if I'm being honest, is that I was a first generation college student. That means neither of my parent got a four year degree from an institution of higher education. And so when I was an undergrad and a college student, they just had really no idea what

questions to ask or really how to dive in and support when I was experiencing like university specific challenges. Now I knew that they loved me and they would support me in any way.

but they definitely didn't understand when I joined a sorority. So that was that was a wild concept to them. but they also didn't know like how to help me when I needed to sign up for student loans one year and I was walking into the financial aid office alone or when I decided to change my major, them being like super afraid that this was gonna set me back and really hesitant for me to even think about changing my major. And so a lot of times when I'm doing this work at William Mary, I'm thinking

What would my mom needed to know to have like better phone calls with me, or even just be able to understand what I was talking about when I called panicked about changing my major, that the default wouldn't be, I don't know about that, but maybe she would have a resource that she could send me to, or she would just know that this is a normal part of the college transition, that students change their majors and it's hard for an 18 year old to decide what they're gonna do for forever, so it may take a couple tries. And so

Here at William and Mary, I think that turns into, you know, you mentioned those personal touches, like the care package thing, for example. I don't even think my mom knew that other moms were sending care packages to school. And so sometimes I think, you know, if s if she had just seen that in an email newsletter that she was getting once a month, like, hey, here's how to send a care package. Here's what you might include putting in your care package. But I think that benefits everybody. You said

College has changed so much and families are involved in a much different way than they were before. So if I operate from a baseline understanding of like, let's pretend this is new for everybody and that I'm gonna explain all of this for the first time, then I think ultimately that sets families up for success because so much of it has changed and every higher ed experience is different and it just benefits everybody.

Clancy Denton (11:15)
Yeah, I love that you draw on your personal experience. And when you said you put yourself in your mom's shoes, I I love that because yeah, it's just it is so d I mean, it's so different even for us years ago, many, many years ago. It's just totally it's totally changed. I mean, the way these kids do school now is just totally different. And you talked about

You know, you start communicating with the families and students as soon as they make their decision. And that could be, you know, winter season, into spring semester, you're already communicating with them and then you continue that communication through the summer. So what what are the some of the things that you communicate with them at that time and what are you trying to accomplish before they even step foot on campus?

Heather Deere (12:10)
I think something that is really important for me and I I probably say it without realizing I'm saying it is that I really want families to feel comfortable sending their student to William and Mary. But that comfort can't really come without trust in the institution, trust that I've got them, the family member here if they ever need support, or that there's a support system for their student. And so, you know, our early decisions come out in December and that's when I start communicating with early decision families.

And so, like, for example, that spring semester is all about encouraging families to like let students take their foot off the gas, which is a hard concept because they've worked so hard, the whole family has worked so hard for the student to get in and to make that choice and be proud of that choice. And it's natural instinct for families to just want to dive into the next challenge, which is when is that checklist coming out? What do we need to accomplish?

We need to make sure their their grades stay up and and they need to stay at this level of rigor, which can all be true. And I also think it's important for them to have fun as a high school student, to like go to their dances and maybe stay out a little too late one weekend or spend more time with their friends because it's such a I tell families this is such a sweet chapter that's about to close and I don't want anyone to rush through it. That's

That's the last thing I want because the checklist is gonna come. It's gonna come in May and you're gonna have a long list of things to do. And you're have to get your your student comfortable like picking up the phone and calling and asking for their own vaccination records or scheduling their own their own doctor's appointment. And so, you know, that spring to summer transition looks different. Then I start thinking through okay, now we do have some nuts and bolts you you can take care of. And I want to give families a little bit of grace in that transition. So

When they're calling me and saying, Hey, what do I need to do to do XYZ? I give them a moment of grace. But by the time we get to the end of the summer, I have the expectation that families are letting our students make those phone calls or send those emails or troubleshoot those concerns. And so that's where that coaching model comes in is that sometimes I have to be direct and I have to say, you know, I appreciate that you're calling me about this, but what steps have your student taken to resolve this issue? And, you know, what could you encourage your student?

To do to resolve this issue. Maybe I give you the resource that ultimately they need to go to, but it should be your student making that phone call. And so part of that comes with like, I just have to have a little bit of comfort and being willing to say the things that I think families need to hear because we have the same goal. We want students to be successful, but there isn't anyone else besides me that's telling them, you know, it's time to to start setting your student up for success.

Clancy Denton (14:50)
Yeah, I love you hit on so many things that, you know, making them do their phone calls, which yes calling about yeah, I know. They're like, wait, what? I have to call, I can't text, or and then, you know, we had two different situations where our oldest didn't decide until April where he was going, and our youngest, she decided pretty much right after I'd say January probably. So yeah, we had different experiences of

She had some time and gave us a little bit time to breathe. He was like April and then it was fine roommates, fine where we're living, fine. I mean, it was yeah, it was really sped up and quick.

Rick Denton (15:32)
That's what I I like about what Heather, what you had said of the idea of telling families, enjoy this. Really enjoy this moment. You you you've I think if I remember correctly, you referred to it as this sweet chapter, the sweet moment in their lives. It's so easy to let that senior year, that last year of high school just fly by because there is so much and the checklists do exist that that idea of, hey, stop down and enjoy that moment. There

This episode's going to come out at a different moment. The enjoyment's over, right? And this episode's gonna come out in late August, early September. So families are either right in the thick of the move in or have already just completed that move in. We we even hear of students that have drugged their feet on getting to that move in period. There's all of these emotions that are just wrapped up in this moment. What's really going on with families emotionally at this?

This late August, early September moment.

Heather Deere (16:33)
Yeah. I mean, we are right in the thick of it, I can tell you. So it's easy for me to call on some real world examples right now as we're all getting ready for moving. And it's just what you mentioned. I think this is a big emotional time frame for everybody in the family. but what I often find is that we're not talking about it out loud or with one another at the dinner table. We're talking around it in like

What color comforter do you want? Or do you need that mini fridge? Have you talked to your roommate? Is your roommate bringing the mini fridge? We're I see that families are really focused on like what they can control and is it tangible in front of them, which is they know exactly what the schedule for move in day is. They know how they're gonna pack the bags or pack the car, they know what they're gonna pack in the car. And so that's how they're kind of focusing their emotional transition is on the the nuts and the bolts. Whereas students are like,

If you ask me one more time if I need a shower caddy, I might not go to college.

Rick Denton (17:38)
Shower caddy is the the end all be all of all college success.

Heather Deere (17:43)
Yeah, for some reason it usually comes down to one thing and that shower catting tends to be it. But I think it's all just there there's so many transitions and emotions and just being afraid to just have the open conversation. Like if I could give any advice and everyone were to hear it, it would be sit down at the dinner table one night and just say, like, let's talk about how we're feeling. You know, you know, this is a big this is big. What's about to happen? What are you excited about? What are you nervous about? And really just thinking through it.

I think the biggest piece of advice I give William and Mary families, I find that they tend to focus on like that goodbye when they're gonna actually like say goodbye to their student. Are they gonna hug them? Are they gonna cry? Like really hyping up this, this is gonna be a big, big moment for our family. And I will tell you, it usually passes with like minimal incident. That's usually not the hard part for families. The hard part typically is

one, getting in the car and driving away from campus, feeling like you've left someone behind. That is something that we don't really talk about. And it like really hits it that's the part that every time I talk to parents, they're like, I haven't thought about that. Probably because you're not wanting to think about it. And then what happens when you get home, maybe to like an empty house? Like do you have plans? Do you are you gonna go out for a nice dinner? Do you have a little getaway for yourselves that you have planned? I think

The first six weeks after a student moves in for families is often a lot of anxiety of like, are they finding their people? Are they finding their place? You know, has their schedule worked out from them? Do they hate their classes? Did they remember not to put that red t shirt in their load of whites? Like all of those little things. But also at the same time having to grapple with we have this newfound freedom and space in our own lives. How do we fill it? Who are we without our student here?

And how do we how do we fill this time in a way that's meaningful to us? But no one ever really gets to that part until it's right in front of them. So I think, you know, that's something I hear often from families. They're really anxious about their student, but they're not asking me enough about, you know, what does this mean for us and what should we be prepared for beyond move in day?

Rick Denton (19:52)
That's so deep 'cause I'm sitting here I like you saw me get a little choked up and you were talking about driving away. I didn't know 'cause I can visualize all of those drive aways and how emotional those are.

Clancy Denton (20:03)
Our daughter is about to leave for her last semester. And I still get emotional when they are pulling out of the driveway to drive her car back several states. And I fly out there the next day. But yeah, it's still it it gets me. And talking about that first weekend home when we were new empty nesters, I told Rick, I said, I don't want to be in the house.

So we went to another city for you know, the weekend and I said I just don't want to be here. It it's fine, but I just didn't want to be in that physical space for that first weekend. So yeah, the advice that you're handing out is is spot on. So what do you find are

Heather Deere (20:55)
The most

Clancy Denton (20:58)
Asked questions or the biggest issues or the most common issues that you deal with in that first semester year from from the families, from the students. What what are you finding are the most common ones?

Heather Deere (21:14)
Yeah, I would say it's different, of course. There there are key moments that I can kind of point to. I would say we deal with some homesickness in the first four to six weeks. and I'm very open with families. I don't recommend that you come and visit your student in the first six weeks because it's harder for you and it's harder for them. like you just

Clancy Denton (21:37)
You've been reading our you've been reading all of our stuff that we put out 'cause I say that too.

Rick Denton (21:42)
Or now I'm realizing the wisdom of those who do this, it's actually the heathers of the world.

Heather Deere (21:47)
Yes.

Which can be it can be really hard, right? And that first six weeks is when both of you are feeling it. So it's when everyone is like, I just want to take them to lunch. And if I just take them to lunch, we'll be fine. And so I'm hearing from families and I read between the lines pretty well, which is, you know, I'm worried that they haven't made any friends yet. They haven't joined a student organization, or they I can just tell that they're spending a lot of time in their room and I don't really know what to do about that.

That's when I start to really break it down with families into, you know, and I even cover this our orientation presentation, is instead of asking them, Have you made any friends yet? Which is a big question and is very hard to do as an adult making friends. it's what's the name of the person that sits next to you in bio? That is really breaking it down to something small, which is what's your neighbor's name? Who do you sit next to in class?

Did you go to an event this week that seemed fun instead of, you know, have you joined the five organizations you thought you were going to? You know, you had told us you really wanted to join the the club basketball team. Have you gone to tryouts yet? Have you made any friends? Who are your friends? because that all takes so much time. And so sometimes students feel that they're not meeting the expectations of their families. And so they shy away from those conversations.

And so sometimes families inadvertently put pressure on students that they don't even realize that they're putting on them. So I always recommend to break it down much smaller than your bigger ultimate question. I know those are the big concerns that families have. I hear them consistently in that first semester, which is like they haven't found their people and I'm really worried they're not going to, but that takes so much time. But it's small, repeatable behaviors that build that up. So that's the kind of conversation that I would have with a family member for sure.

Rick Denton (23:44)
You know I I'm actually having trouble processing my thoughts, Heather, because I'm I'm rolling right now in a little bit of retroactive guilt

Clancy Denton (23:54)
Yeah.

Rick Denton (23:55)
and a little bit of just amazement in how you are talking about things that parents know that it's better to ask questions than provide statements to their young adults. That's such a truism. But it's sometimes those questions we ask

can place that that stress that and that's the guilt that I'm some knowing this retroactive guilt that I'm kind of steeping in of I bet you I asked, hey, have you you you talked about joining this club? Have you done it? I'm thinking about our first and soccer was a big deal for him. And I think we talked about that a lot with him. And that idea of no just get down to just some easier, simpler questions to start doing that is well, I kind of wish Heather that I'd knew you nine

Clancy Denton (24:34)
I know.

Rick Denton (24:36)
years ago.

Heather Deere (24:36)
Well

something about that, but I mean that can be applied to any stage of your young one's life. I mean, after they graduate and they start their first job and they have to start this all over again, right? They maybe move to a new city, they're starting a new job. you know, that is a tough, tough transition in and of itself. And so this is where they're building

the the muscle strength to be able to do that over and over again at some point in their life. It's never too late to apply that advice because at some point you're gonna ask, you know, have you done XYZ in this new city? You said you wanted to join the Rec Cornhole League. I'm on a Rec Cornhole League, so that's why I say that example. But you're gonna ask the question and and

not even realizing that like they're really afraid to do that because they haven't met anybody yet that they can go to wreck cornhole league with. So they're like, I I can't even do that. So maybe it's just anything you're curious about, breaking it down because I think this applies to any stage. And I mean, this is the playground where they get to learn how to be an adult within the safety of a support system that cares about them and won't won't let them slip. So how can we as family members

be in that playground with them learning how to do it. I think that's really what this is about.

Clancy Denton (25:56)
love that and I'm I mean, I'm going to take that advice because we have, you know, we have our son right now is finishing up law school and then our daughter will be going to grad school as well. And so yeah, she'll be starting all over in a new city somewhere. That's that's sage wisdom and advice.

Rick Denton (26:18)
You get asked a lot of questions by parents. What are what is a or what are some questions that you wish parents would ask you that they're not asking you as often as they should?

Heather Deere (26:31)
Hmm. I usually turn this back around on families and I maybe state it to them, but I think every family member can ask themselves this before they pick up the phone and call someone or before they send an email on behalf of their student, what could my student learn from this experience that I'm gonna prevent them from doing by jumping in and doing it for them? So is it learning how to advocate for themselves, learning how to problem solve, learning how to

take accountability when they have messed up. I think oftentimes when I'm on the phone with families and we're going through something, whether it's you know, they violated the code of conduct and they're going through a conduct process or something happened and they missed an they missed an exam and the professor won't let them take it and family is really upset wanting to figure out what can we do to help them in this moment. I think that is the time to ask

what can my student learn from this experience in the spirit of this being a playground and a learning ground for them of how to be an adult and really be independent. And then moving to like how how do I help my student take the best step? So I find and I know the ones who are listening to me who like in May when they just start the checklist, they will call and it will be like, I need to do X, Y, and Z. But then in August, the same parent will call me and they'll be like, okay, Heather,

I'm calling you because I want to run this by you. This is what's going on. I think I'm gonna recommend they do this. How do you feel about that approach? And that to me, there is so much growth there because they've taken the time to think through, okay, I'm not gonna jump in and do it for them. What should my student be taking on on their own? And really the grounding of all of that is what can they learn from this experience? And really trying to frame all of these experiences that they're gonna have through that. Now that's not to say that there are not times where

family advocating for student is necessary or in their best interest, but for many cases there is a real learning opportunity there. I think if families could pause and ask themselves that question, it may frame how we interact and engage with one another just a little bit differently.

Clancy Denton (28:44)
We dealt with that our daughter's freshman year. You know, she had a really bad roommate situation, like really bad. And as much as I wanted to get on the next plane and go out there and

Rick Denton (28:59)
She's not being metaphorical. She was ready to get on a next plane.

Clancy Denton (29:03)
You know, we did. We helped her figure out and how to navigate and and you know, we were there to listen and support. But I love that you said that. How can my student get this experience? And I mean, she grew up so much that semester. It was

Rick Denton (29:20)
Her ability to advocate for herself, using your phrasing there, Heather, grew leaps and bounds that we would have stunted had we gotten involved.

Clancy Denton (29:28)
Yeah. And so I mean, anyone listening or watching this can see your passion and love for this role that you have, but what tell us what's your favorite part of it?

Heather Deere (29:40)
Hmm. That's a hard one. I mean, I do just want to start by saying like it's such an honor that I get to walk beside families during this really special time because that's what it is. It's exciting for everybody. And I know that students and families have worked so hard to get here. And for some of them it may be their first higher education experience ever. And so it's I am just really proud to be able to do the work and to support in in some way and hope that it makes a difference in the end.

But I think it is some of those moments where families call and they're like, Heather, I know you don't you're not the person in charge of this and you're not responsible, but like this is happening and I just need to talk to someone about it. And the fact that they trust me enough that I'm gonna pick up the phone, that I'm gonna listen to them with empathy and hear what they're saying and and get them to the best place, I think is is my favorite. But I'll also say like

I've been doing this for so long that I've seen many generations of students start as freshmen and then graduate. And so it is so fun to be at commencement and see families that I've known for four years. And maybe there's some backstory there of those challenges or those really awesome wins that we've celebrated together. And like their parents know me. Their student has no idea who I am. And they're like, This is Heather, she does the webinars. And

I'm like in their commencement photos, like moms are out here making me take pictures with their kids and like they they're gonna look back at that scrapbook and be like, Who is this woman? Yeah. but I just those are the moments that I'm like, Okay, the work I'm doing is making a difference. And if I was just a tiny part of their William and Mary experience, then I have done my job really well. And I I get a lot of of joy and pride out of that.

Rick Denton (31:28)
Man. I just love that. I love the idea that that there's this secret agent Heather supporting the families bringing that forward. that's great. Heather, there's so much that like I said, that w I didn't know that this world really existed until we started to get into our students' university experience. If folks wanted to learn a little bit more about the William and Mary approach or your approach to this, what's the best way for them to learn more?

Heather Deere (31:55)
yeah, you can get a good overview of our program by just visiting our website, wm.edu slash families. Our Instagram's also very active, WM underscore families, and that just gives you a flavor of the kind of support we offer. And but generally I would recommend anyone listening who has a student that's going to a university, just search parent family engagement on your university's website and you'll find probably someone like me who cares really deeply.

We're a tight knit professional community, I will say, and many of us borrow from one another and really lean on one another for support because we care so deeply about the work. So my guess is that most institutions have a Heather. May not be just like Heather, but there is someone out there who cares just as deeply.

Clancy Denton (32:41)
I love that. And yes, I hope everyone listening to this episode really will if you have a kid going off, or if your kid is already there and you haven't been plugged into the family group there. It it really is a good, good resource for the parents, the student. You know, there's just so much information out there. And Heather, we just appreciate you so much. Thanks for being on the Loud Quiet.

Heather Deere (33:08)
Thanks for having me.